Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on June 25th, 2017, 12:22 am 

Oh yeah, it seems like it's been deleted - here's another copy:



"State TV" - I don't think that accusation can be so readily leveled at any other president-tv news relationship in history...
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby mitchellmckain on June 30th, 2017, 2:03 am 

Is Trump sabatoging the links? LOL Or... maybe that isn't so funny after all?

One part of me wants to say... When Trump won the election the world became a stranger to me. I do not understand it anymore. I cannot comprehend how a lunatic like this could get elected president of this country. But perhaps this is just because I am a Yankee through and through and blind myself to backwater side of this country.

So, on the other hand... perhaps it is just the old ten steps forward and nine steps backward habit we have often seen in this country and the world as a whole. And is Trump so unbelievable after that goof-ball G W Bush? Is this a pattern? If Trump isn't quite a dictator yet, then what will the next one be like when the backwater side of the country has their way in politics once again?
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on June 30th, 2017, 5:11 am 

Maybe if we turn the politicians in the other direction their backwards ways will move us in the right direction? :P

I think the sad truth is that real political change only happens in extreme circumstances. When we can no longer ignore the problem as it crawls onto our doorstep, only then do people take action (and usually they are so distanced from the heart of the problem that innocent bystanders get swept up and blamed.

This is my number one fear for humanity in general. The physical and cognitive distance of the sufferers from the problems created. A few hundred years ago people would march on the castle of their rulers and overthrow them. Today it looks more and more like those that should perhaps be held to account are spectres to the average person (to me at least!)
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on June 30th, 2017, 7:13 am 

Yes - untouchable in the their 'cloud fortresses'...

And how about the POTUS making his son in law "defacto" secretary of state?:



Straight out of the Gaddafi or Saddam Houssein's dictator handbook. Jeez.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on June 30th, 2017, 10:06 am 

Except, those guys were relatively competent. Or at least consistent.
A dictatorship needs a single, coherent voice to bring all its dogs to heel.
They'll have to get rid of the joker before they can consolidate their deck. That's probably in the works already; just have to designate a fall-guy.... Let's see, whom does the far, far, fringy right like as arch-demon?
(I have to stop watching House of Cards!)
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on July 1st, 2017, 9:39 pm 

Trump apparently "weaponizing" the Enquirer to attack journalists that he disagrees with:

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on July 27th, 2017, 1:51 am 

Tucker asks a good question from his guests here - why would Trump want to look for some weak argument to fire the one man - Jeff Sessions - who has been so loyal and useful to him in his rise to power, and still could be so useful to him in the future?:



No good answer to that question comes beyond the idea that it is to do with Sessions' recusal from the Russia investigation, which would suggest that Trump wants to somehow gain access to that investigative process, and why?

He already fired Comey. What does Trump fear so much about the investigation? That some criminal behaviour from him will be discovered?

If that is indeed the case, and Trump wishes to protect his 'empire' from being tarred as founded on criminal gains, then I think it is rational not to rule out any and all potential attempts from Trump to dictate to America regarding his not guilty status, rather than to submit to the traditional US legal process.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on July 27th, 2017, 3:07 am 

Just watched Scaramouche (or whatever his name is) interviewed by BBC journalist.

I have to admit I can see how they are operating. He says it is good Trump is "up front". I do agree with this (in principle, because I don't think he is being up front), and I can see how people will buy into this. He openly expresses views on twitter and I really think people appreciate this in some way. I just imagine many, like myself, would also like to see some intelligence presented rather than simply slurs and sound bites.

Anyway, one VERY blatant thing on display in the interview was some not so subtle psychological manipulation. His touchy feely approach to the interviewer, the gestures and posture. These are all meant to present a front of "openness" and he rightly talks about politics being a game of "back stabbing" and is promoting the idea of stabbing people in the face instead ... again, the idea is nice enough, but one cannot help view this as nothing more than a feigned principle which really involves stabbing people both in the back and in the front!

I am DEEPLY concerned about other things happending and who is behind them, is there a concerted plan and such. I refer to interference in other states by corporations and the US institutions at large.

Resources in Venezuela and the Congo? Obviously they've stemmed production in the gulf region and "secured" oil fields for later exploitations once a new puppet is installed. Venezuela is well on the way to such a mess too because of embargoes and opposition of US. I nearly forgot to mention Brasil! That is a HUGE deal. If they are destablised then the whole of South America is open to more and more exploitation. They are a major power in the region.

Then there are reports of companies from developed countries buying up farm land across Africa causing populations to, in the near future, literally starve. I am not able to back this up at all but it is a recurring theme I have heard. It may just be a case of people buying up land for future sale and not a concerted effort to rob citizens of a nation by privatizing the land they need to grow food on and leaving it sitting idle. Regardless it is VERY concerning that this can happen at all. What seems obvious is that farmers would sell their land at a price. This will then slow food production, cause famine and lead to nationalistic attitudes to take the land back by force ... tehn in flies the "peace keepers" to quash the "rebels".

My question is, is Trump for or against such actions? Cheap labour is shifting to Mexico is it not? I heard recently that in China the growth is catching up with them and cheap labour there is becoming less cheap!?
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on July 27th, 2017, 3:25 am 

BadgerJelly » July 27th, 2017, 4:07 pm wrote:My question is, is Trump for or against such actions? Cheap labour is shifting to Mexico is it not? I heard recently that in China the growth is catching up with them and cheap labour there is becoming less cheap!?

I think more and more it is becoming obvious what Trump is for, and it something very simple and known since the dawn of civilisation - selfishness and greed. If it serves his brand interests then he's for it, and that's as complex as his political strategy gets, it seems.

He's an opportunist p****-grabber, not a philosopher.

This is a very sad time for America, the West, and even the whole world - where a man who would stab his own brother in the back for personal grandeur, not unlike an insane Roman emperor, becomes the most powerful world leader. What kind of message of hope does this send to all the other developing nations? Certainly not one of hope.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on July 27th, 2017, 5:03 am 

I crave the day when the United States simply becomes a group of independent states instead. He may start people moving in that direction ... every cloud ... ;)
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby zetreque on July 27th, 2017, 9:29 am 

Mossling » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:25 pm wrote:
This is a very sad time for America, the West, and even the whole world - where a man who would stab his own brother in the back for personal grandeur, not unlike an insane Roman emperor, becomes the most powerful world leader. What kind of message of hope does this send to all the other developing nations? Certainly not one of hope.


Sadly, sayings like this aren't even a metaphor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/us/p ... ering.html
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby zetreque on July 27th, 2017, 9:39 am 

BadgerJelly » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:03 am wrote:I crave the day when the United States simply becomes a group of independent states instead. He may start people moving in that direction ... every cloud ... ;)


I crave the day when the whole Trump family and associated is fully exposed to the whole public and in prison or worse for crimes against the world. Books and movies are written to cement the facts in history and a brighter day dawns. The United States is simply is at war right now with itself to reduce ignorance in the human species.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on July 27th, 2017, 9:55 am 

Reduce? Couldn't av fooled me matey! Haha!
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on July 27th, 2017, 10:34 pm 

Good grief. The administration is becoming more like goodfellas by the second:



Stalin's Great Purge:
The political purge was primarily an effort by Stalin to eliminate challenge from past and potential opposition groups, including the left and right wings led by Leon Trotsky and Nikolai Bukharin, respectively. Following the Civil War and reconstruction of the Soviet economy in the late 1920s, veteran Bolsheviks no longer thought necessary the "temporary" wartime dictatorship, which had passed from Lenin to Stalin. Stalin's opponents on both sides of the political spectrum chided him as undemocratic and lax on bureaucratic corruption. This opposition to current leadership may have accumulated substantial support among the working class by attacking the privileges and luxuries the state offered to its high-paid elite. The Ryutin Affair seemed to vindicate Stalin's suspicions. He enforced a ban on party factions and banned those party members who had opposed him, effectively ending democratic centralism.
[...]
According to one interpretation, Stalin’s regime had to maintain its citizens in a state of fear and uncertainty to stay in power (Brzezinski, 1958). Robert Conquest emphasized Stalin's paranoia
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 4th, 2018, 11:56 pm 

The Nunes memo is saying that the FBI has been politically biased against the Republican candidate before the election and on-going, no matter the facts that:

* The pre-election FISA application for surveillance on Page was made to 4 judges appointed by former Pres. Bush.
* Page had been under investigation by the FBI due to Russian stuff long before the 'peepee dossier' arrived on the scene - which may have been simply a straw that broke the camels back.
* Comey at the head of the FBI released Hilary Clinton's emails issue 10 days before the election, which would obviously have helped the Republican candidate, no matter who it was, and in this case it was Trump.
* Trump replaced Comey with a more staunch Republican - Wray, who he is now accusing of being anti-Trump.
* Trump replaced the leader of the Russia investigation with another more staunch Republican - Mueller, whom Trump also now says is against him.



As a result of this memo, the FBI's favourability rating is dropping and Trump's personal truth is gaining more traction.

Beyond journalism, which only communicates information, the ultimate truth - the socioeconomical legal truth - lies with the FBI and the Justice Department. When those institutions are undermined, then what tangible truth is left in the hands of the American people? None - for the truth is dictated to the people by Trump.

There is a very possible reality where America ends up like Saddam Houssain's Iraq during the height of that dictators power.

Image

Image
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on February 5th, 2018, 5:01 am 

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 5th, 2018, 10:27 am 

Those of us at work appreciate a description of a video link before clicking on it.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on February 5th, 2018, 10:31 am 

He talks about Hitler and there's a brief attempt by the interviewer to apply what he says to Trump. Either way it is worth a watch if you've not come across Peterson yet (which would be strange given the current hype.)
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 5th, 2018, 12:42 pm 

Mossling » February 4th, 2018, 10:56 pm wrote:
There is a very possible reality where America ends up like Saddam Houssain's Iraq during the height of that dictators power.


Look at those pictures you posted (I know I'll be seeing them again when I try to sleep tonight).
Which of the guys in the middle looks more capable of assembling an effective security force?
Which of the guys on either side look capable of taking over the reins?

This isn't a dictatorship. It's a national tantrum. Once it ends, somebody will have to sweep up all the broken toys, furniture and crockery.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby wolfhnd on February 5th, 2018, 5:40 pm 

You know they said more or less the same things about Lincoln :-) Some of them true in both cases but we live in a world where intellectual and practical concerns are always in conflict.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 5th, 2018, 5:52 pm 

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 5th, 2018, 7:37 pm 

On the other hand....
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/05/politics/trump-speech-treason/index.html
Even the suggestion of criminalizing dissent should send a chill down the spine of anyone who counts themselves as a fan of democracy. The right to dissent -- without fear of retribution -- sits at the heart of what differentiates America from authoritarian countries around the world.


Lincoln has no more to do with this than Hitler does. Let's judge each man by his own actions, and the affect he had on his nation - not by whom they may resemble or what's been said about them.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 5th, 2018, 11:36 pm 

Serpent » February 6th, 2018, 1:42 am wrote:This isn't a dictatorship. It's a national tantrum. Once it ends, somebody will have to sweep up all the broken toys, furniture and crockery.

I agree somewhat, and yet where are the parents with the backbone to put an end to it before the big baby throws anything that resembles the forefathers out with its own bathwater?

Being perceived as a nation of losers tends to cause inward cultural assaults.

Post-WW1 the Germans blamed their own broadness of social philosophy and philosophizing for their own failures, so that gave a platform for someone like Hitler to rise. After China's '100 years of shame', Mao got rid of the 'Three Olds' with his cultural revolution.

The US's hegemony is on the decline - constantly losing to China's soft power tactics internationally, and thus economically. There has been this new argument that USA cannot use its military bully-boy tactics on China like it would normally do, as it seems is presently the case, and thus it appears that the US is feeling more and more impotent - loser-ish.

And so it is apparently a question of not where Trump intends to go with this tantrum, but how far and for how long he intends to go. Because I don't see any obvious parental backbone in place.

Democracy can be pretty resilient, and yet in the modern age, what if significant social media manipulation from a hostile power, coupled with the better presidential candidate being shredded by national intelligence 10 days before an election, coupled with a global economic downturn in the context of having the biggest national debt surge since WW2, all arrive together - can such a storm be weathered by the pillars of democracy?

Image

Image

Trump's system isn't winning and it isn't going to win. So who is going to lose? The Trump bandwagon that governs the logistics of the parade or the audience watching?

So 'buy your gold now folks', lol, cos the US could be heading back to the Wild West soon enough.

This:
Image
Could look even more like this:
Image

Empires rise and fall.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 6th, 2018, 1:08 am 

Mossling » February 5th, 2018, 10:36 pm wrote:Democracy can be pretty resilient, and yet in the modern age, what if significant social media manipulation from a hostile power, coupled with the better presidential candidate being shredded by national intelligence 10 days before an election, coupled with a global economic downturn in the context of having the biggest national debt surge since WW2, all arrive together - can such a storm be weathered by the pillars of democracy?

The pillars, maybe. USA, as it is at present? I don't think so. The economy can't possibly survive three more years of shark-attacks. The social fabric can't possibly survive three more years of internal hostility and paranoia.
Many states seem to be carrying on regardless, or even in opposition. If they are able to form coalitions, and keep their resolve, there will be a fragmented country afterward, that can perhaps become three healthy federations surrounded by the bits and pieces left over.
I have no idea what will happen to the agencies and organs of the old federal government. I have no idea what will happen to the Trumps' political base, or the networks, or the corporations or the judiciary.

Of course, there is still the possibility of a military coup, but I don't think any generals would, until it's a dire emergency. Like the aftermath of the economic collapse, with wide-spread rioting and armed conflict. Or a really, really big weather disaster, with millions displaced and hungry. I can't imagine this administration having the ability to cope with a big problem. They'd run around in circles, yelling at one another.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on February 6th, 2018, 3:33 am 

Camille Paglia: "Trump is on his way to reelection... Dems have overplayed their hand."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYshb3ojgDo

Just listen 5 mins in. The word "BUBBLE" is fitting.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 6th, 2018, 6:06 am 

BadgerJelly » February 6th, 2018, 4:33 pm wrote:Camille Paglia: "Trump is on his way to reelection... Dems have overplayed their hand."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYshb3ojgDo

Just listen 5 mins in. The word "BUBBLE" is fitting.

I liked what she said about Trump speaking like a construction guy in a pit. It means that he sees the world through the eyes of the masses more, and yet of course, construction pit guys are not known for their sympathies towards anyone with a more sophisticated vocation.

Robots are going to replace those workers soon enough, anyway. But perhaps not if the 'jobs guy' Trump uses his rhetoric to play to his powerbase until America is behind other nations on the automation front.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 6th, 2018, 6:10 am 

Serpent » February 6th, 2018, 2:08 pm wrote:Of course, there is still the possibility of a military coup, but I don't think any generals would, until it's a dire emergency. Like the aftermath of the economic collapse, with wide-spread rioting and armed conflict. Or a really, really big weather disaster, with millions displaced and hungry. I can't imagine this administration having the ability to cope with a big problem. They'd run around in circles, yelling at one another.

Yeah its like trying to predict what a chimp will do after giving him a hammer, isn't it.

Is he gonna hit a nut or another chimp? Or just put it down in favour of a banana?

Completely random lol. But scary, because whatever he does affects the whole world.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby zetreque on February 6th, 2018, 1:26 pm 

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 6th, 2018, 1:42 pm 

Yeah, I noticed another message board...the Trumpistae there have been curiously quiet about Trump's treason comment. I sympathize. It's hard to face it when your Icon starts talking like a dictator. Per SOP, the loyalists will just pass it off as hyperbole or venting or a rhetorical "style" that shouldn't be taken seriously. Of course,when Hillary Clinton used a far less damning phrase, they took that deadly seriously and she will be a Right Wing Pinata for all eternity.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 6th, 2018, 2:21 pm 

Mossling » February 6th, 2018, 5:06 am wrote:I liked what she said about Trump speaking like a construction guy in a pit. It means that he sees the world through the eyes of the masses more,

How can anyone imagine this? He sees the world through the eyes of a spoiled rich guy in a gilded tower, surrounded by toadies he changes as often as his socks. He believes in nothing but Trump.
He sounds like the masses, because he repeats the noises he hears on FUX, which the masses are also used to hearing and repeating.
He never stopped campaigning. It's the campaigning he enjoys: the strutting on stage, the applause. So he'll keep saying whatever Joe Hardhat is willing to applaud.
None of that is any reflection on how he's actually treated his employees throughout a contract-busting, litigation- and bankruptcy-ridden business career.

Americans have been trained like seals to clap at at empty slogans and laugh at familiar catch-phrases.
I mean, they'll buy a beer whose only self-advertised virtue is being cold.
Whatever Trump really is, he's not the cause of whatever is going wrong; he's a symptom of what's already gone wrong.
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