Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 14th, 2018, 1:28 pm 

Indeed.

This.....

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/3/16959458/immigration-trump-compromise-public-opinion-poll-dreamers-wall

....used the Poll Aggregator to examine assertions about American's support for Trump's immigration policy. Approval of the DACA program does not equate to approval of the Wall. These poll results are not consistent with claims made here yesterday about the country's overall approval of the President's immigration plan. The Wall is still opposed by the majority of Americans. Gosh, they must have figured out that Mexico has heard of ropes and ladders.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 15th, 2018, 1:16 am 

It seems that Neri is contributing here for "purely eleemosynary reasons."

Time to wake up and smell the covfefe?

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 15th, 2018, 2:20 am 

On a more bipartisan note, I am often dismayed these days about how Leftists/Dems respond to Trumpists and Right-wingers' rhetoric - with condescension and intellectual narcissism that makes them out to be budding dictators of sorts no better than Trump (using such words as 'Trump-tard'.)

Politicians in general tend to be "used car salespeople," and so verbally-rooted strategic power-grabs are to be expected from both sides of the field. But I think the current situation is more of a moral one than 'politics as usual.'

The most powerful guy in the world is a self-admitted and and self-proud uninvited p***y-grabber - who admittedly walks in on beauty pageants, and even teen ones, and who protects the likes of Roy Moore who was accused of improper sexual conduct with a minor.

These guys are the kind one sees on that TV program 'To catch a predator' and yet they are supported and even enabled in their ambitions to reach the highest governmental offices on the planet. How can people who sympathise with that kind of PREDATORY behaviour ever be morally justified, let alone voted into government so that they can influence broad social policies?


(2:10 for the key phrases)


("Who do you complain to? He owns the pageant")



So this is isn't ultimately about cleverness it is about moral decadence on a level that is truly abhorrent to the average human. And even when this picture was clear from the time that the bus recording was released, it was not ultimately deemed relevant for some reason.

Republican Billy Bush was hauled over the coals, resulting in this awkward statement:



And so Republicans and of course Democrats alike feel a deep disgust for Trump's immoral behaviour, so apparently this is NOT ultimately about politics - it's not about the Clintons or even Russia, it is about human morality in general just as much as dictatorships ARE NOT ABOUT POLITICS but instead, just like predatory sexual behaviour - about abuse of power.

Under a dictatorship there is no politics - there is just the dictator and his or her enablers, and this is apparently the kind of power abuse behaviour that Trump indulges in - just like Weinstein did with his 'sex enabler teams,' and thus wishes to make the hallmark of his presidency.

America is indeed in big trouble - a predator has been accepted and enabled. The whole nation has been groomed and is being molested, just like a beauty pageant contestant pinned into submission by the contest organiser. I believe this is the true origin of the anti-Trumpism - it is not about Dems losing badly, because Billy Bush - the ex-Republican-POTUS' first cousin - has lost badly due to Trump.

There have been bad losses all around - for both parties, the country, general human decency and values, and now potentially for American Democracy in general.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Neri on February 15th, 2018, 8:30 am 

Serpent,

One would expect this sort of rubbish from the Washington Post. Although, one must admit that this newspaper is an expert on deception, since they practice it so well themselves.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 15th, 2018, 11:09 am 

More attacks without citations or any evidence at all. Yawn. I am sure that if any other national circulation paper reported the same matter of public record, with multiple verifying sources, the Hofferian "true believer" would still dismiss it as deception.

Mossling, thanks kindly for your many thumb-ups.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 15th, 2018, 5:03 pm 

Neri » February 15th, 2018, 7:30 am wrote:Serpent,

One would expect this sort of rubbish from the Washington Post.

Which sort of rubbish?
The only reference I've made to that newspaper was "Tanks, but no tanks" in response to the announcement of the persident's desire for a Russian-style military parade. I thought the sentiment was expressed succinctly and with a minimum of rancor.

Although, one must admit that this newspaper is an expert on deception, since they practice it so well themselves.

Do you assert that the response was deceptive? In what way?
Would you care to elaborate on the basis for that indictment of the WP?
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Neri on February 15th, 2018, 8:48 pm 

Mossling,

First of all, the filibuster was not eliminated by the Republicans for the passage of legislation but only as it concerned the approval of presidential nominations to the Supreme Court. So that if the Democrats regain control of the senate, they will be able to appoint Supreme Court Justices without the assent of the Republicans.

[I thought that I explained this clearly in my previous posts. It appears that one of us has difficulty with the English Language. I am sure you will think it is I. It should be no surprise to you that I think otherwise. I can only hope that you possess sufficient intellectual honesty to read this and my previous posts with a view to comprehending them.]

During the Obama administration, the Democrats eliminated the filibuster as it concerned presidential nominations to the federal district and circuit courts.

Obama was thereby empowered to appointed judges with a decidedly leftist bent to these lower federal courts—the same judges who were willing to impose their parochial views on the whole nation with full awareness that their decisions were so lacking in merit that they would ultimately be reversed by the Supreme Court.

Because the filibuster still applies to legislation, President Trump has reached out to Democrats, exhorting them to exercise their votes for the good of the nation and not for reasons of petty politics. President Trump has been partially successful in this, and I believe he will enjoy greater success in the future, for he is not as much of a conservative as the myopic, such as you, seem to think.

With regard to sexual morality, I will say this: “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

I am old enough to have voted for a president with full knowledge of his monumental sexual excesses. Kennedy was a man who had to have sex with a different woman every night otherwise he would get a headache and kept two naked whores in the white house pool for this purpose whenever his wife was away. Yet, I voted for him, because I believed that, even with all his faults, his presidency would be better for the nation.

Yet, Kennedy had no history of actual sexual harassment. The same cannot be said for Bill Clinton.

As far as Trump is concerned, although he may well have been a womanizer, there is no indication that his sexual behavior was anything but consensual on the part of the women involved, nor is there any indication of coercion or official oppression.

Trump’s claim made privately to the effect that aspiring actresses like to have stars grab their pussies was crude, boorish, offensive and otherwise completely unacceptable. It only had the minor advantage of being true.

It is a fact of life that, when having private conversations, men often speak disparagingly of a certain kind of woman. The same is true of women privately comparing notes as to the sexual prowess of certain men.

However, When Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas, he arranged for a state employee, Paula Jones (someone completely unknown to him) to be brought to his hotel room by the state police. When she arrived in the room, Clinton was standing there with his penis exposed, and, without so much as a by your leave, demanded that she take it in her mouth. She was courageous enough to refuse to do such a thing.

Yet, how many other female state employees did succumb to Clinton in this way for fear of his power as governor of the state for which they worked? Indeed, such a fear would certainly be justified in the light of all the circumstances, not least of which was the use of the state police to satisfy Clinton’s sexual whims. If this was not an abuse of power as well as sexual harassment, then nothing is.

I knew this and much more about the activities of Bill Clinton that were an affront to all womankind, yet I voted for him and opposed his impeachment. I did this because I believed then that his presidency was good for the nation as a whole. Now, I am not so sure.

I am an independent, but I like to believe that I am not a hypocrite.

I did not believe that I could shrink from voting for Trump for reasons of sexual immorality, when I had not done so in other cases where I believed that sexual immorality was not the controlling factor. But, I am sure you are wondering why I thought that Trump was preferable to Hillary Clinton as president.

I initially decided that I would vote for Bernie Sanders, principally because I joined in his concern for the plight of American workers. He opposed the one-sided trade agreements that were closing thousands of American factories and pushing workers out of jobs paying a living wage and forcing them to work in minimum wage jobs at fast food restaurants.

Although Sanders is a socialist, I did not believe he was a communist who believed that all wages throughout the world should reach the same level and that American workers had to suffer a sharp decline in their income to satisfy this internationalist scheme. I was sympathetic to Sanders’ opposition to this scheme because I have a working class background.

I believed, however, that Hillary Clinton did in fact have this internationalist view, even though she may not have been a Marxist. To be honest, I thought that her view in this regard was more self-serving than honestly held, for it seemed clear to me that she was seeking to further enrich herself by means of her international contacts.

You can understand my dismay when I discovered that she had rigged the primary campaign and had stabbed Sanders in the back. By the way, I discovered this through the emails released by WikiLeaks.

I took particular note of the fact that her campaign did not deny the accuracy of the email releases but only claimed that they should be disregarded because of their source. However, I was more concerned with their truth, and this did not bode well for Hillary.

Naturally, I was disappointed that Sanders succumbed to the Democrat machine and gave his support over to Clinton. Under the circumstances, I thought that a vote for Sanders would be a wasted vote. Yet, I could not bring myself to vote for the likes of Hillary Clinton.

I was well aware of the character flaws of both Trump and Hillary, yet I had to make a decision that I thought was best for the country.

First of all, I did not appreciate the hypocrisy involved in Hillary’s current notion that any woman’s sexual harassment complaint is always to be construed as absolutely true regardless of the circumstances, when Hillary herself called the women who made such complaints against her own husband, liars, tarts and money grubbers.

Under certain circumstances I can overlook sexual misconduct, but I cannot abide blatant hypocrisy.

Nor did I appreciate the fact that although Hillary condemned Wall Street in her public pronouncements, when she gave a paid-for private speech to a group a Wall Street Tycoons, she said in effect that they need not worry about her public statements, for she would take care of them (the tycoons) when she got into office. This is devious to say the least.

I found most offensive of all Hillary Clinton’s condescending attitude towards working people. Her statements about them, to my mind, amounted to this: They should stop whining about jobs they can never get back and get retrained to do other sorts of work. She even went so far as to say that she wanted to put miners out of work because coal was polluting the environment—never mind that CO2 is the basis for all life on the planet.

All of this was an indication to me that Hillary was employing identity politics—the notion that by appealing, inter alia, to able-bodied blacks and whites on welfare that her election would be assured. This scheme failed because it rejected those who busted their humps 14 hours a day to help subsidize men who, at public expense, sat around all day eating fattening foods and watching TV yet were better off than them, the working poor.

As a son of Italian immigrants, I resented Hillary’s conflating Americans of foreign origins lawfully working and residing in this country with immigrants who surreptitiously entered this country in violation of American law.

Before being allowed to enter this country, my father had to demonstrate that he had no criminal record, that he had a job waiting for him in the US and had a sponsor that would vouch for him and arrange for his housing. He also had to pay considerable sums of money to reimburse the government for the costs of processing his application.

All during the time that he lived in this country, my father was a hard working law-abiding American who loved this country and was proud to become an American citizen. By the way, he voted Democrat all his life.

I find it deeply offensive that Hillary and her ilk would equate my father with a person who enters this country illegally and (because of the total lack of vetting) without the government knowing whether such a person is a criminal, a terrorist or even someone who had no intention to work here but to live off of the public dole instead.

Further, the notion that racism is Trump’s motive for vetting aliens seeking entrance to this country, apart from being preposterous on its face, is itself a kind of racism.

It says that a Mexican is of another race because he is Latin and does not have blue eyes and fair skin—and God forbid if he has in him a single drop of Native American blood.

As Italians we are a Latin people with swarthy complexions and aquiline noses, as were the ancient Romans upon whom western civilization is largely based. Yet, with every justification, we consider ourselves white. We have every reason to be proud of this as much as African Americans have every reason to be proud that they are black.

Italians should not be required to deny their identity in the interests of some twisted notion of political correctness that says that ultra-leftists have, out of the goodness of their hearts, fostered Italian immigration even though Italians are not white. They call themselves anti-racists for this, yet they are the real racists.

Apparently, they want to make the specious argument that persons of Latin origin are not white so that they can accuse Trump of being a racist for insisting that Mexicans and other Latin Americans who seek residence in this country should be properly vetted.

This same offensive thinking is amply reflected in the attitude of Barak Obama. He considered himself the “first black president” and was exalted in this by the extreme left. Yet he was half white.

Thus, he chose to deny half of his identity-- notwithstanding the fact that his white mother and grandmother loved him and amply provided for his rearing and education.

On the other hand, his black father who abandoned the family and never in any way supported Barak or his mother was taken as a role model to whose race Obama assigned his entire identity. This fosters the vile racist notion extant at the time of slavery, that even one drop of black blood makes a person fully black; and by the way, it also advanced Obama’s political ambitions.

As I mentioned previously, Trump is not the rabid conservative portrayed in the leftist press. Recent events should amply demonstrate this to any fair- minded person. As I observed earlier:

“Thus, he recently fulfilled his promise to increase the effectiveness of the military but did so at the expense of increasing funds for human services. Because of his populist bent, Trump was not at all reluctant to do this, even if it drew the wrath of the very conservative elements of his party.

“Trump has also offered a very compassionate plan with regard to DACA that goes far beyond anything proposed by the Democrats in that it offers a road to citizenship not only for those covered by DACA but also for more than a million more illegal aliens.

“Although, in the past, the Democrats have given lip service to border security, they now oppose it for fear that they will give Trump an opportunity to claim victory.”

I do not expect you to agree with me and have only given you my reasons for supporting Trump. I have arrived at this position after much soul searching and am nobody’s fool.

I would like to apologize in advance for not having the time to edit this rambling tome and can only hope that, despite my poor typing, I have to some extent explicated my point of view.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 15th, 2018, 9:23 pm 

Neri -- I found most offensive of all Hillary Clinton’s condescending attitude towards working people. Her statements about them, to my mind, amounted to this: They should stop whining about jobs they can never get back and get retrained to do other sorts of work.

How is it condescending to tell the truth? A lot of gone jobs are never coming back. A lot more jobs are going. Skills and types of work become redundant all the time; become obsolete all the time. Retrain or invent something else to do.
How it it better to tell them you'll bring industry back from China, while distributing campaign gear made in China? Trump always knew he was going to give big tax cuts to the rich, small ones to the middle class and nothing to the unemployed. He always intended to yank back their health insurance and social services, with no plan of any kind to replace them. How is it respectful lie in their faces, all the while intending to stab them in the back?
She even went so far as to say that she wanted to put miners out of work because coal was polluting the environment

Coal is polluting, and it should be replaced by clean, renewable energy generation. Coal-mining has always been a dangerous and health-destroying job. Those people may not have had opportunities to do anything else, but that doesn't mean they should keep being used up in the service of a destructive industry that will make life even harder for their children. It's going to happen, regardless. The age of fossil fuels is ending. For the time coal continues to be mined, it will be increasingly done by machines.

Clinton didn't cause this; she was merely honest about it. Trump cannot stop or change this; he's merely dishonest about it.


—never mind that CO2 is the basis for all life on the planet.

That's unrelated to the case in point. No life is being generated by the smokestacks of coal-fired factories.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Neri on February 15th, 2018, 10:05 pm 

Serpent,

Hillary’s pummeling at the polls is testament to the fact that American workers, although they are mostly registered Democrats, do not agree with her assessment—nor do I. Time will tell whether or not manufacturing jobs will return to the US. As you know, the process has already begun.

Time will also tell how Hillary supporters feel about the tax cuts when they receive bigger paychecks.

As far as Hillary’s contention that coalmines should be closed and miners put out of work, I just have difficulty with the idea that CO2 is a pollutant.

If you recall, this was Margaret Thatcher’s contention when she tried to break the back of the coal miners union in Great Britain. She hired a so-called committee of experts who were paid by her government to come up with this preposterous conclusion. As you know, Thatcher was far from liberal.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 15th, 2018, 10:08 pm 

As far as Trump is concerned, although he may well have been a womanizer, there is no indication that his sexual behavior was anything but consensual on the part of the women involved, nor is there any indication of coercion or official oppression.

Trump’s claim made privately to the effect that aspiring actresses like to have stars grab their pussies was crude, boorish, offensive and otherwise completely unacceptable. It only had the minor advantage of being true.


Neri, in your massive opinion dump above, you made a statement so misogynistic and offensive to professional actors that I would ask for a moderator to look at this. I have bolded the comment above. I know people in the acting profession ( from a previous job) and can state with some certainty that no woman likes this kind of sexual violation in a coercive context. You are ignorant, at best, and possibly you have descended to the level of a forum provocateur--for what purpose I can't tell. Calling actresses whores is not a way to win others to your opinions. You disgust me.

Your first paragraph in the quote is contested by, what's the latest figure, 20-plus women, with considerable consistency between multiple perspectives. Given the unequal power situation between Trump and his assault victims, I would have to question the mental capacity of anyone who could not see coercion there. Combined with multiple witnessed reports of other violations, like barging into dressing rooms where teen girls are undressed, how can you not discern the sort of creep that Trump is -- AND ADMITS TO BEING on tape??

Wake up and pull your head out of your ______.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 15th, 2018, 10:15 pm 

"Hillary’s pummeling at the polls..."

This level of distorting facts is trolling. Clinton won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes. Not exactly pummeling. Especially given gerrymandering and voter suppression tactics by the GOP in about a dozen swing states.

Clinton lost. Why do you need to exaggerate her loss so much? A little insecure in your arguments? Anxious about the polls for 2018, which ain't looking so good for the, er, non-Democrats?

OK, gotta run. Someone else can play with the troll provocateur. Or whatever the feck he is.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 15th, 2018, 11:46 pm 

Neri » February 15th, 2018, 9:05 pm wrote:Hillary’s pummeling at the polls is testament to the fact that American workers, although they are mostly registered Democrats, do not agree with her assessment—nor do I. Time will tell whether or not manufacturing jobs will return to the US.

Hillary's technical loss by a small margin is testament to the Democratic party's chickenshit failure to get behind their best candidate and to the American workers' gullibility and short-term memory loss. Time will tell, but if their long-term memory is equally poor*, they won't learn from it.
(*it always has been)
As you know, the process has already begun.

Yah. 1200 of the promised 45,000 jobs. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-coal-jobs/exclusive-trumps-coal-job-push-stumbles-in-most-states-data-idUSKBN1F81AK
Unreleased full-year coal employment data from the Mining Health and Safety Administration shows total U.S. coal mining jobs grew by 771 to 54,819 during Trump’s first year in office, led by Central Appalachian states like West Virginia, Virginia, and Pennsylvania -...
But the industry also lost jobs in other Appalachian states like Ohio, Kentucky, and Maryland; the western Powder River Basin states Montana and Wyoming; as well as in several other states like Indiana, New Mexico, and Texas.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-02/the-great-coal-mining-jobs-boom-has-been-postponed

Incidentally, coal-mining isn't manufacturing.
Where manufacturing jobs are being created, they owe very little to Trump's policies, and do not change the trend.
https://www.recode.net/2017/5/26/15656120/manufacturing-jobs-automation-ai-us-increase-robot-sales-reshoring-offshoring
https://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2017/01/economics-and-finance


Time will also tell how Hillary supporters feel about the tax cuts when they receive bigger paychecks.

if
and whether their rents, school fees, transportation and health insurance go up more or less than their pay increase.

As far as Hillary’s contention that coalmines should be closed and miners put out of work, I just have difficulty with the idea that CO2 is a pollutant.

Oddly enough, that doesn't surprise me.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 16th, 2018, 12:20 am 

Neri » February 16th, 2018, 9:48 am wrote:As far as Trump is concerned, although he may well have been a womanizer, there is no indication that his sexual behavior was anything but consensual on the part of the women involved, nor is there any indication of coercion or official oppression.

A considerable number of women have put their reputations and dignity on the line to come forward and clearly indicate that Trump has a tendency to sexually assault women - in the same vein as they have done with Weinstein.

These kinds of men are well-known to most women - they are shallow, emotionally unstable, and predatory.

In Trump's own recording he says after spotting his 'prey,' that he had better eat a tictac just in case he cannot stop himself from starting to kiss the vulnerable woman - he says when he sees beauty he just has to start kissing it - he obviously thinks that all beauty is open to his advances, and he had absolutely no signal from that woman that he intended to "just start kissing" that she was open to that. Thus, he is not in the habit for waiting for any consent - he just assumes that if they are smiling and within his vicinity that he can just grab p***y and kiss to his hearts content.



Check from 2:00 to 2:10 - he says "I don't even wait" - wait for what? For consent.

This is not womanizing - this is unbridled aggressive sexual predation. That is what he enjoys - decadent abuse of power, and he admits to his inability to restrain himself sexually.

You are obviously from the old school of social ethics, but in this modern age this is completely unacceptable and abhorrent to anyone living with modern values in a developed country.

You are an apologist for a sexual predator - a power abuser and relentless and compulsive liar who protects other sexual predators like himself, such as Roy Moore, not to mention wife beaters like Rob Porter.

All the signs and signals are there, which include Trump's admittance of having no respect for the decency of the women who attended his beauty pageants, nor the self-restraint to stop himself from grabbing and kissing and molesting any beautiful woman he comes across.

The whole situation in the US government, like Trump's sexual behaviour, is pretty much out of control and at the mercy of feral predatory instincts.

A forum member called Paul Anthony, like yourself, used to defend Trump on threads like this. That was in the early days, though. Now we do not hear a peep out of him. Like you, he chose to support this runaway trainwreck of an administration, but eventually the obvious decadence, hypocrisy, chaos, and ineptitude of the Trump tragedy got too much and too obvious for his logic faculties to bear. At least he knew when to get off that hurtling kamikaze vehicle. I would highly recommend that you assess your current position very carefully.

Also I would ask you to notice that you are the only poster here who is not backing up your statements with any references to hard evidence. Your rigor is severely lacking when it comes to the statements that you are putting forward. Everyone else here is giving you their sources, but you seem to think that you are above such referencing and linking. Please could you return the decency to validate your key claims where possible.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Neri on February 16th, 2018, 8:47 am 

Regarding actresses, I do not contend that all actresses in Hollywood, for example, are willing to give out sexual favors in the hope of getting a part. But the reality is many do. However there is, in such cases, a fine line between coercion on the one hand and voluntary sex on the other.

The problem arises when stars and prominent producers and directors become so used to women throwing themselves at them, they take it as a given that this will be the case with all young actresses. Therefore, when they make their moves on the occasional rara avis with a moral compass, they have to pay her off.

However, there is no excuse for the likes of Harvey Weinstein. He is a toad. This leaves one wondering why a prominent actress like Meryl Streep would think that a toad is God.

Nor are such things absent from the solemn halls of academia.

Some women students will throw themselves at professors in the hope of getting a good grade and often succeed in this.

Others feel harassed by the unwanted advances of professors. In such cases there is at least a strong suspicion that their grade will suffer if they do not accede to his desires.

There is often a fine line between the two extremes that has to be carefully navigated if one has any interest in justice.

For one, I do not favor a gloss on reality. The unvarnished truth is best.

In this regard, I am reminded of an experiment involving a male and female chimpanzee that have been deprived of their quotidian feeding.

When a bunch of bananas is thrown into the cage, the male, who is larger and stronger than the female, grabs all the bananas and pushes away the female.

After some contemplation by her while the male eats the bananas, she approaches him, turns and bends over at the waist. This has great sexual significance to the male, so he attempts to mount her.

This time it is she who pushes him away. After some bemused reflection on the matter, the male shoves the bananas in her direction and she proceeds to eat them. He then happily mounts the female and has his way with her as she eats the bananas.

If you want the unvarnished truth, here it is: We are, all of us, male and female alike, oversexed apes. It is the purpose of the law to control our sexual nature so that it conforms to social justice. This is not an easy task, but the courts attempt it every day-- with varying results.

However, the notion that women are always right and men always wrong turns its back on reality, and this is never a good thing.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 16th, 2018, 9:05 am 

Neri » February 16th, 2018, 9:47 pm wrote:If you want the unvarnished truth, here it is: We are, all of us, male and female alike, oversexed apes. It is the purpose of the law to control our sexual nature so that it conforms to social justice.

Lol, next you'll be quoting "red in tooth and claw." You really are living in the nineteenth century then.

Good luck with all that.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Neri on February 16th, 2018, 9:47 am 

Mossling,

I do not know what historical period you belong to, but it must be in an alternate universe. I think like many of your mindset, you are so infected with political correctness that you fail to see the truth when it stares you in the face.

I recommend that you employ critical thought in judging the issues before us rather than enslaving yourself to mindless ideology. You will be better for it.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 16th, 2018, 9:59 am 

Neri » February 16th, 2018, 10:47 pm wrote:I do not know what historical period you belong to, but it must be in an alternate universe. I think like many of your mindset, you are so infected with political correctness that you fail to see the truth when it stares you in the face.

Well, apparently it's the same universe Plato lived in...:
Image
...before his Academy and all the other philosophy schools were shut down by the creators of the bible-thumping Dark Ages.

Trump knows what is good and what is bad, just like we all do. He just hasn't had the opportunities to enjoy goodness - mutualism, because he inherited his sustenance, unlike the average good guy on the street who employs cooperation. Thus, Trump thinks badness is more fun than goodness - the ownage - the slaughter - the winning - he is all about competition and personal victory over other people. Ask his golf coach even.

Unfortunately altruism must be learned and enjoyed in order for it to flourish in human societies, otherwise the default is parasitism, unfortunately - just observe any three-year-old kid. No different from Trump's social strategy - tantrums and self-obsession. Trump has never really had to learn to behave any other way.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 16th, 2018, 10:48 am 

Therefore, when they make their moves on the occasional rara avis with a moral compass, they have to pay her off.


Translation: most women in show business are amoral whores.

Glad we have an insider expert to guide our thinking here!
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Neri on February 16th, 2018, 10:58 am 

Mossling,

I have not contended that what you and others have said about Trump is entirely without merit.

However, what troubles me is that those who condemn Trump are unwilling to subject the paragons of liberalism to the same scrutiny.

As I pointed out previously, in many cases, the behavior of people like John Kennedy and Bill Clinton has been far worse than that of Trump. Yet the silence is deafening on the left.

This cannot but advance the notion that leftist are more willing to forgive the sexual excess of those they agree with than to condemn it wherever found.

In such case, it serves their purpose to say, as you have, that the law has no bearing on the question. I, for one, prefer moral and legal consistency.

By the way, Socrates engaged in homosexual intercourse with his underage students—a practice common in ancient Greece and carried over in modern times in the homosexual abuse of the Catholic clergy.

I will not be available for further comment until after 9pm tonight.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 16th, 2018, 10:59 am 

Braininvat » February 16th, 2018, 11:48 pm wrote:
Therefore, when they make their moves on the occasional rara avis with a moral compass, they have to pay her off.


Translation: most women in show business are amoral whores.

Glad we have an insider expert to guide our thinking here!

Lol.

EDIT:

One would wonder why so many conservative and Christian parents send their daughters to ballet classes in the face of this alleged truth.
Last edited by Mossling on February 16th, 2018, 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 16th, 2018, 11:07 am 

Neri,

As I asked before - please reference sources if you want recognition.

Personally I see no superiority in either progressivism or conservatism. That's not what this thread is about. It is not about left sexual deviancy against right sexual deviancy. Trump is beyond that - he's lashing out at the very Republican people he put in charge of the FBI and the Russia investigation, for example - he is apparently at odds with the whole system.

The ancient Greeks were aware of sexual fluidity - as are many modern scientists now.

Socrates used the erotic advances of those he engaged with in order to keep them practicing philosophy. He was arguably an ascetic when it came to sex, in fact. Again, let's see the evidence if you like - but on another thread to this of course if you want to begin discussing Socrates.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 16th, 2018, 12:53 pm 

Mossling » February 16th, 2018, 10:07 am wrote:...It is not about left sexual deviancy against right sexual deviancy.

There is no difference. If sexual predation is accepted in a society, political ideology doesn't enter in. What it has to do with the will to dictatorship is that 'top dogs' and their packs derive their ethics from [their own skewed perception of] the law of the jungle, rather than the rule of civilized law.

Trump is beyond that - he's lashing out at the very Republican people he put in charge of the FBI and the Russia investigation, for example - [i]he is apparently at odds with the whole system.

That's the platform on which he campaigned. It's not like they didn't have adequate warning. But the apologists kept sating "Oh, he doesn't mean it literally." and "There are checks and balances in place" and "Don't be alarmed; once the heat of campaigning is over, he'll settle into the job and be responsible"
Aha

I like this image:
hurtling kamikaze vehicle.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 16th, 2018, 1:05 pm 

Neri » February 16th, 2018, 9:58 am wrote:
I have not contended that what you and others have said about Trump is entirely without merit.

However, what troubles me is that those who condemn Trump are unwilling to subject the paragons of liberalism to the same scrutiny.


He's Chief Executive of the Most Powerful Nation on Earth. The face you all wear to the world.
He's the president.
Presidents get scrutinized more than most people, because they're up on that very big stage, doing their act on public display. Right Now

Scrutinizing people long dead and long out of power would save you nothing now, do you nothing now, except make you feel better: Somebody, sometime, was reputed to be worse in some way than the man who right this minute has the power to throw me in prison or have me blown to smithereens.

Tiny further comment on sexual misconduct: A great many men on both sides, and even completely outside, of the political divide, are in trouble for the same kind of behaviour. Only the Trump administration, afaics, has tried to defend their bad behaviour.
I don't know whether that points toward dictatorship; it certainly points toward abuse of privilege.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Braininvat on February 16th, 2018, 1:12 pm 

As I pointed out previously, in many cases, the behavior of people like John Kennedy and Bill Clinton has been far worse than that of Trump. Yet the silence is deafening on the left.
-- Neri the Impartial

This thread is about Trump's approach to governance, as POTUS. After some quick research, I discovered that Clinton and Kennedy do not presently hold public office, and one of them is deceased. This could go some way to explaining the relative quietude on the matter of their personal predilections. I think it's possible that many of us are considering Trump's term on its own merits rather than chasing the rather dubious moral justifications of "hey, a President in the early 1960's slept around, so whatever Trump does is fine!" I would, in a similar way, question the justification of "Hillary Clinton was bad! Bad bad bad bad! So whatever Trump does is fine!"

This line of reasoning sounds like that partisanship you claim to reject so much.

The mere fact of not being a Clinton or a Kennedy is not a free pass to go around attacking people, shredding alliances, annihilating trade agreements that took decades to make work for us as a participant in a global marketplace, calling sovereign nations "shitholes," cozying up to white nationalists, demeaning women, insulting Latinos and Muslims, banning journalists from public press conferences, cozying up to dictators, concealing transactions with a bank convicted of money laundering for Russian mobsters, rolling back laws that protect our environment, shredding consumer protections, etc.

Your apologias make me wonder if Trump was indeed correct when he said he could shoot someone down in the middle of Times Square and still bring in the votes to win.

(TYPED BEFORE I SAW SERPENT'S REPLY -- excuse some redundancy)
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 16th, 2018, 1:41 pm 

Your apologias make me wonder if Trump was indeed correct when he said he could shoot someone down in the middle of Times Square and still bring in the votes to win.

I had not heard that particular Trumpery! Might have clued in some people who heard it - but evidently didn't. What I find most disquieting - aside from all of the above - is that he kept right on campaigning after he was in office. Makes you wonder whether he's campaigning for the same office we think he's occupying, or some office that he's busy inventing.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 16th, 2018, 11:26 pm 

Serpent » February 17th, 2018, 2:41 am wrote: Makes you wonder whether he's campaigning for the same office we think he's occupying, or some office that he's busy inventing.

A fine observation.

Just look at how he addressed the nation after the recent Florida shooting:



images.jpg


Like a rich kid at school who has been forced to deliver a book report in front of the class. His whole presence oozes with "f this sh*t happening far away from and beyond the concerns of my guilded Trump Tower."

Go to 1:25 in the above video - "Whatever we can do ... to ease your pain" - barely suppressing a smirk?

By 3:55 he's really had enough of 'this sh*t', hasn't he? - Not of the shooting, but of his duty to care - body practically putting in sarcastic speech marks "especially those" lost, alone, or confused.... or even "scaarrrred."

Some of it is probably due to his bad reading ability, but still, it comes across so awkwardly - his whole composure is screaming inside - you can tell. He's actually having to do a job for once in his life - he's a public employee, and that is NOT who he considers himself to be - HE tells others what to do and forces them to yield to their duties, not the other way around. The dictator in him is writhing around in agony as he stands there as a result of his aides telling him he had to do it ("Who's the boss here? Eh? - You guys or me?!").

Remember when Trump was campaigning: "I can do presidential, I can do it - it's easy", but why was that such a joke? Because he doesn't want to be a president - he doesn't want to have to answer to anyone. So if that is the case, what is the natural outcome of him being in this role?.... It seems that it can only be an attempt to dictate...
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 16th, 2018, 11:57 pm 

You may be reading too much into his demeanour. I suspect he was stage-directed to "project grave concern" - and he did his best. It's just, he can't really feel for other people. He just hasn't got any natural empathy.

The job he's suited for is hereditary monarch. His kids have some of the traits of European aristocracy, as well - not their noblest traits, unfortunately .
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on February 17th, 2018, 12:00 am 

Serpent » February 17th, 2018, 12:57 pm wrote:It's just, he can't really feel for other people. He just hasn't got any natural empathy.

Exactly - that's all I was reading from his demeanour.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on February 17th, 2018, 1:01 am 

Also, he has zero acting talent.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby mitchellmckain on February 17th, 2018, 2:43 pm 

Neri » February 15th, 2018, 9:05 pm wrote:As far as Hillary’s contention that coalmines should be closed and miners put out of work, I just have difficulty with the idea that CO2 is a pollutant.

This is one on which I agree with Neri. I presented my case in another thread that the real culprit in global warming is not human CO2 production but the human created holes in the ozone layer. Yes CO2 is part of a natural cycle and created by the biosphere. But if we damage the ability of the biosophere to maintain the current proportions we can get a rapid climate change that will cost many lives and resources.
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