Make sane society visible

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Re: Make sane society visible

Postby d30 on March 27th, 2017, 6:37 pm 

Sorry about the triple post. Tried to post initially and a notice said there had been a new post I might want to review first before submitting mine, and somehow wound up with it posted three times.
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Re: Make sane society visible

Postby d30 on March 28th, 2017, 12:21 am 

Braininvat » March 27th, 2017, 2:31 pm wrote:I just want to offer this essay, in today's New York Times, as maybe a useful counterpoint to the theme of this thread. It reconsiders the idea that human beings are "rational agents," riffing off of Dostoyevski's "Notes from Underground." It is flat out brilliant, IMO.....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/opinion/our-delight-in-destruction.html

I was gobsmacked at how well ol' Fyodor predicted Donald Trump.


Nobody said there will be no setbacks on the road to utopia.

The problem is not human nature as this essay unholistically and tiresomely reiterates for the nth millionth time. The problem is ignorance - ignorance humanity has been struggling its way out of for millennia, and the extent to which it has ought to tell you something about the trajectory of human evolution. From savagery to the first democracies. From witch doctors to modern medicine. From cave to condo. From campfire to central heating.

A human is only as good as the circumstances into which it is born and raised. How else explain an O.J. Simpson vis-a-vis a Neil deGrasse Tyson, a Rush LImbaugh vis-a-vis a Noam Chomsky?

When we establish salutary conditions into which all humans are born, the purpose of this thread, we will see the potential of humanity is to be just and limitlessly advancing beings at least as much as its potential is self-destruction as long as ignorance in all its myriad factions persists, rejuvenated (temporarily we hope) by colossal mass-dumbing-down abuse of media including Internet.
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Re: Make sane society visible

Postby Athena on March 28th, 2017, 6:03 pm 

vivian maxine » March 27th, 2017, 7:32 am wrote:Athena, the key word is "begin". "Here is a set of standards we want. Now what can I do to get it going?" There is an old story told of a boss who put a sign above the suggestion box: "Unless you can suggest a solution, do not bring your problem to me."

d30
When we establish salutary conditions into which all humans are born, the purpose of this thread, we will see the potential of humanity is to be just and limitlessly advancing beings at least as much as its potential is self-destruction as long as ignorance in all its myriad factions persists, rejuvenated (temporarily we hope) by colossal mass-dumbing-down abuse of media including Internet.




Vivan, and d30, I am sure I am mortal. I am also sure, in the bigger scheme of things, my life does not matter. I could die tomorrow and the world will not notice a change. However teachers influence the lives of thousands of children, and authors have written books that changed national and international perspectives of reality, in their day, and even centuries after they are dead. Thomas Jefferson and his peers took history down a whole new path and no one was sure the bold new country of the United States would survive. In general, the European opinion was that it would not.

While I think Buddhism has much wisdom, I think being as Thomas Jefferson is far more important. It would be egotistical of me to say anything of importance begins with me because I am the product of those who have gone before me and the books they have written. I am not Christian, but I must use Christian terminology to convey the point I want to make. We are the body of Christ. Meaning we are part of something much bigger than ourselves. And education is like a genie in a bottle. The defined purpose is the wish and the students are the genie. Here are some things Thomas Jefferson to say about that...

9.1 No Freedom Without Education

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

"Convinced that the people are the only safe depositories of their own liberty, and that they are not safe unless enlightened to a certain degree, I have looked on our present state of liberty as a short-lived possession unless the mass of the people could be informed to a certain degree." --Thomas Jefferson to Littleton Waller Tazewell, 1805.

"No nation is permitted to live in ignorance with impunity." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1821. ME 19:408

"Freedom [is] the first-born daughter of science." --Thomas Jefferson to Francois D'Ivernois, 1795. ME 9:297

"Light and liberty go together." --Thomas Jefferson to Tench Coxe, 1795.

"Above all things I hope the education of the common people will be attended to, convinced that on their good sense we may rely with the most security for the preservation of a due degree of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. Madison Version FE 4:480

39.2 Education and Republican Government

"[I have] a conviction that science is important to the preservation of our republican government, and that it is also essential to its protection against foreign power." --Thomas Jefferson to -----, 1821. ME 15:340

"There are two subjects, indeed, which I shall claim a right to further as long as I breathe: the public education, and the sub-division of counties into wards. I consider the continuance of republican government as absolutely hanging on these two hooks." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1814. ME 14:84

"The value of science to a republican people, the security it gives to liberty by enlightening the minds of its citizens, the protection it affords against foreign power, the virtue it inculcates, the just emulation of the distinction it confers on nations foremost in it; in short, its identification with power, morals, order and happiness (which merits to it premiums of encouragement rather than repressive taxes), are considerations [that should] always [be] present and [bear] with their just weight." --Thomas Jefferson: On the Book Duty, 1821.


The US Declaration of Independence says we have a right to life, liberty, and happiness, and understanding Aristotle, Cicero, and Locke is important to understanding why those words are in the Declaration of Independence. I hope when I die others will continue to convey this knowledge. None of this began with me, and some days I worry it could die with me.
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Re: Make sane society visible

Postby Athena on March 28th, 2017, 6:24 pm 

d30 » March 27th, 2017, 4:34 pm wrote:A sane transportation system would also be a sane characteristic of a sane society. Elaborate, comprehensive public transportation from any location to any other location with terminals for for the vast majority within walking distance.

It would be funded by the hundreds of billions saved by dispensing with (also ecology-ruinous) production, maintenance, fueling and junking of hundreds of millions of automobiles.

The universal transit system would provide employment to many no longer needed in jobs for auto plants, parts industry, fuel production and distribution, and auto insurance. No more insurance premiums, gasoline costs, inconveniencing repairs, or hellish lines at DMVs.



That idea is as good as universal education and universal medical care and assuring people have decent and affordable housing. I think public education is a good place to bring about such changes, but there is much opposition to the education necessary for this to happen. However, teaching math for good decision making, is a good place to start! Forums such as this one are places where the seeds for change can be planted if the atmosphere of the forum allows that to happen.
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