maintaining diversity in society through price structure

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maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby zetreque on January 16th, 2018, 7:00 pm 

Tickets For Burning Man 2017 Sold Out In Just 35 Minutes
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/burning-man-2017-sold-out_us_58dd1349e4b0e6ac7092b94e

Burning Man is an event that has gained global attention and something I have to personally deal with year after year. A little while ago I attended a special event talk given by the founder in which he gave a history, present and future of the organization that is supposedly anti organization.

I have never been a fan of the event because of seeing how hypocritical it is but seeing the presentation put it into perspective.

One growing problem the event has encountered and reason for it's hypocrisy is that it is in such huge demand and given little resources. As it has grown larger than it's carrying capacity, it has encountered numerous problems. There has been complex negotiations with the State of Nevada over leasing the land to hold the event and the carrying capacity to maintain safety (water, fire, security, environmental impacts). This "problem" that has evolved out of the event has lead to creative thinking, solutions, and understanding of the problems the world in general faces.

One such evolving mechanism to combat this problem over demand is tiered and low income lottery tickets. It is extremely important to the event to maintain diversity which includes people from different wealth brackets and the "low income lottery tickets" are a way to do this and what prompted this whole forum post. Holding lotteries for ticket sales is one way to try to save diversity. I often see ways in which the wealthy end up living in a bubble world outside of reality as they buy up limited supply (supply being a physical product or ticket to a U2 music concert). One such example of a wealth bubble is what is going on in certain politics and I am sure you can take a guess what I talking about. Controlling the wealth and world while living in a bubble outside of reality appears to be a real problem. This can be fixed by forcing wealthy class diversity into the equation. In this case, diversity in wealth brackets where people of all wealth come together to exchange thoughts, lifestyles, problems, etc.

What types of societal events, services, and features could such a lottery system help?

Healthcare might be one.

This brings me to a concept I am not remembering entirely clearly but I have heard it argued that one reason it is thought to be important to have wealth in society and inequality in prices to do things is because it pays for the development of newer and better technology. Clean energy and early adopters is often used. Free markets is also supposed to allow for demand and supply of what society thinks is important to invest in but then government is supposed to step in and guide society little bit better. This can be complicated to get into.

Is it always fair though that the wealthy get to be early adopters or buy up anything that has limited supply? Is it fair that someone born into wealth can buy up all the Leonardo da vinci paintings because he or she obviously worked harder for them? Could we benefit from having a diversity of wealth class be involved in using products services or attending events that often exclude the poor?

Could such a price structure and systematic change be incorporated in all aspects of our society to bring more diversity to society? I should probably fill the bottom of this post with references to why diversity is so important for growth and survival. Such as the problems with mono-crops in agriculture or the limitations on problem solving without diversity of people with different thoughts.
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Re: maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby Serpent on January 17th, 2018, 1:59 am 

I don't understand the question. Rather, I don't understand its scope and practical application.
It's intriguing, but I have no handle on it; no clear idea of how to respond.
Possibly, the lack of responses suggests that other share my perplexity.
Could you maybe rephrase the question more simply, or break it down into smaller ones?
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Re: maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby zetreque on January 17th, 2018, 2:40 am 

Thank you Serpent.

The first hurdle to understanding the idea I propose is one must first agree with and think that diversity is important.

There are different kinds of diversity. For example; if you have multiple people from different backgrounds get together to solve a problem, their chance of solving improves because they will come up with different creative solutions to the problem.

The kind of diversity I am addressing in this post has to do with wealth. People from different wealth brackets in society understand different problems they face. I think that it can be easy for affluent people to forget the struggles that poor people face.

The answer or solution I propose to increasing diversity of people from different wealth brackets has to do with price structure or a lottery system (percentage of tickets or "supply" be randomly picked among lower class) that I realized from Burning Man. This will keep wealthy people from buying up the limited supply.

If we could come up with a lottery system or some other system that could be adopted across multiple industries, perhaps that would benefit the world by bringing in diversity of wealth brackets.

In healthcare: If there was a certain percentage of expensive treatments lotteried out to poor people, would that somehow benefit the industry? Just throwing out some ideas here but maybe if a poor person had access to some fancy expensive procedure and the procedure didn't work, that would give the friends and relatives of that person a better understanding of the industry and perhaps vote (politically or with their wallet) to take it in a different direction.

In the music industry: Say there was a (insert your favorite band here) concert. Demand often dictates ticket prices. If this concert was in high demand and if there was a lottery system in place to give a certain percentage of lower cost tickets to poor people (just as burning man does), then could the music industry benefit from bringing more opinions on experiences in the industry?

This might carry over to space flight, or allowing a certain percentage of poor people to use the first driver-less cars (that you know are going to be more expensive), teslas, or airplane tickets.
#1 Could such a lottery base system be designed to adapt to all industries
#2 Help bring diversity to the industries and
#3 Would the industries benefit from the diversity?

This could go further...

In Government: As we have just seen, money makes a huge difference who gets elected and policies are being setup in favor of this system of wealth buying political positions. If we could adapt this lottery system somehow to getting people in government that can't necessarily afford to run for office...

My idea as you pointed out is still in progress, but I am thinking it could be something where it could be designed and if successful it could better improve the capitalism and free market system. Maybe I am just all over the place here and in that case I appreciate the honest response of not understanding :)
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Re: maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby BadgerJelly on January 17th, 2018, 4:15 am 

It makes sense to simply replicate the spirit of the festival in multiple locations around the country rather than pander to one specific, now commercial, operation.

The same happened in the UK with Glastonbury. Every now and then other smaller and more creative festivals pop up then get consumed by popularity. I guess it at least keeps human creativity and design active and some traditions simple outgrow themselves. This is likely why we're always going to be partly nostalgic creatures. We kind of know that once the cake is eaten we cannot re-eat it, yet we sometimes childishly believe an approximation of the experience will be exactly like the first experience.

By the time the virginal beauty becomes more widely advertised people begin to take what has become an old hag for a symbol of exquisute beauty. They don't understand that they'll only ever discover true beauty in life by the labour of their own trails and errors, and lucky discoveries in the wildness of lifes exploration.

"maintaining diversity" seems like a contradictory sentiment as expressed in my lyrical waxings :)
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Re: maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby zetreque on January 17th, 2018, 4:25 am 

BadgerJelly » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:15 am wrote:It makes sense to simply replicate the spirit of the festival in multiple locations around the country rather than pander to one specific, now commercial, operation.


The Burning Man organization specifically is already doing that around the world. Every year they have more satellite events.
https://regionals.burningman.org/

This kind of takes us off topic though since there is a limited supply of many things including space on Earth.
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Re: maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby BadgerJelly on January 17th, 2018, 5:34 am 

I don't think you can "bring more diversity into society." Nor do I think making festivals into a kind of franchise makes much sense (not that I am saying you're suggesting that.)

Anyway, maybe this topic isn't for me.
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Re: maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby zetreque on January 17th, 2018, 6:33 am 

BadgerJelly » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:34 am wrote:I don't think you can "bring more diversity into society." Nor do I think making festivals into a kind of franchise makes much sense (not that I am saying you're suggesting that.)

Anyway, maybe this topic isn't for me.


Perhaps my original wording was not very great. Thank you for pointing this out.
It wouldn't be bringing more diversity into society. That does kind of seem ridiculous. It would be taking the diversity of society and injecting it into areas of society that lose diversity because of inherent flaws in the way society is currently structured.
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Re: maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby Serpent on January 26th, 2018, 3:05 am 

I think there may be a fundamental misunderstanding.
Disparity of wealth is not a kind of social diversity; it's a kind of social dysfunction.
All the rich people fall into only two classes: the ones who ruthlessly exploit everybody and don't give a flying you-know-what about solving the problems they created, and the ones who lucked or blundered or were born into wealth and don't quite know where their loyalties lie. In the second group, the bright ones find creative ways to invest or give back or generally pay their dues; the dumb ones concentrate on lavish consumption and the accumulation of useless stuff.
Putting some of it in a lottery of opportunity for poor folks is one way the first lot may try to atone, just as exclusive clubs or schools might reserve a few places for some lucky/deserving schmuck from the ghetto, who will spend all his time there feeling like a leper.

Co-operation and problem-solving have to work on more deliberate, more reliable principles.
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Re: maintaining diversity in society through price structure

Postby wolfhnd on January 26th, 2018, 4:32 am 

Economic stratification is saving the planet. Rich people don't buy a proportional amount of consumer goods as a percentage of their monetary holdings as poor people. Numbers in a computer don't cause much pollution or clutter up all the available land with houses.

I'm not suggesting that income disparities that have no justification don't exist. What I'm saying is that monkeying around with the system will have unforseen consequences.

Two criteria for a moral system of wealth distribution in a system where the majority of the poor are living better than half the world's population is competition and merit. Above a rather modest income of something like $40,000 there is little evidence of a direct link between happiness and income. Most of the satisfaction that comes from higher income comes from the feeling of being justly compensated for your contribution.

Additionally dominance hierarchies are not evil but part of natural morality. Dominance hierarchies should not be equated with tyranny any more than moderator status on a forum.

That said the segregation of society by wealth to the point of gated communities is a deadly sin. People of all classes must mingle with each other to avoid alienation and conflict. If you think you could never call someone a friend because they are in a different income bracket that is a poverty of spirit.
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