White male mass shooters above the clouds.

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White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby hyksos on August 4th, 2019, 2:47 pm 

We are now, at this time, reeling on the coattails of a double mass shooting in Dayton and El Paso. Two mass shootings separated by a space of 13 hours.

Barely before the crime scene was processed, Fox News has already brought on talking head pundits to tell us all about how these shootings were caused by "mental illness" and/or "video games". I would love to take every one of those asshole pundits in their little pretty ties for a very long walk through the remaining standing structures of Auschwitz-Buchenwald. Then I can show them the places where they stacked the bodies , and the show them the furnace ovens they used to burn the corpses. Then we can consult chapter 11 of Mein Kampf, where Adolf Hitler spews his vile racism at the "Jewish race" which was the particular ethnic group targeted by the machinery of those camps.

The NAZIs who killed millions for being the "Wrong race" number 1 didn't have video games , and number 2 were not "mentally ill". What did the NAZIs have? They had racist hatred and white nationalism. Racist hatred of fellow humans and white nationalism was the the cause of the Jewish Holocaust. Do not mince your words and do not re-write history.

Fox News's inability to bring on a single guest who says "white nationalism caused this". Their inability to bring on a single pundit who open their mouths and say on camera "this was caused by racial hatred.". The inability of that media empire to do either of these has denigrated itself and desecrated itself into a disgusting propaganda segment on TV. Fox News is not news. From this day forward, Fox News is a propaganda outlet flirting with fascism.

The shooter at the El Paso Walmart arrived with a rifle, and arrived with a fully-written manifesto in tow. A manifesto detailing precisely to the world why he is killing people. The manifesto is a laundry list of racial hatred and racial conspiracy theories. The shooter is not mentally ill. He was arrested without incident. The photos of his arrest look like mall cops arresting a kid who just shoplifted cigarettes.

Now we wait. We wait with baited breath for the silence from King Orange in the White House. Watch as King Orange never uses the word terrorism to describe the shooter of El Paso. Watch Donald Trump never use the word "terrorism" , even when the shooter himself has a fully written manifesto describing his political motivations in detail.

Watch.
Wait.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Scott Mayers on August 7th, 2019, 2:32 am 

Did you read the supposed 'manifesto'? I ask because by the time we hear this the evidence of this is often removed or not permitted access to the public.

I disagree with how even the non-Fox media deals with this by default (let alone Fox's rag-mag approach to 'news'). I don't even watch Fox news on this and don't believe it is sufficiently relevant without others making it out to BE something to notice. The race issues on discrimination are more contradicting these days and not something that I believe is the underlying causes that are being espoused.


Side note on your comment's context:
ON Trump's orange face, ...I believe that the white and color levels used in cameras are what ENHANCES whatever Trump uses on his face that pops out. This is actually able to be fixed and modern cameras should not be able to show this normally. That is, the effect of his orange face may be purposely enhanced merely by the selective choices of the media.

You also have to be careful not to be promoting your own counter-hate based upon the very foundation of discrimination to judge others inappropriately based upon appearance. While you may judge the guy's views with disgust, you actually are missing HOW discrimination and racism is initiated by LINKING external appearances to one's mental states.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Lomax on August 7th, 2019, 4:43 am 

Scott Mayers » August 7th, 2019, 7:32 am wrote:I disagree with how even the non-Fox media deals with this

Scott Mayers » August 7th, 2019, 7:32 am wrote:ON Trump's orange face, ...I believe that the white and color levels used in cameras are what ENHANCES whatever Trump uses on his face that pops out.

Both very amusing turns of phrase.

Is your question about whether the "manifesto" is available or whether it is legitimate? Because I can link it if that's all you're after.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Scott Mayers on August 7th, 2019, 5:56 am 

Lomax » August 7th, 2019, 3:43 am wrote:
Scott Mayers » August 7th, 2019, 7:32 am wrote:I disagree with how even the non-Fox media deals with this

Scott Mayers » August 7th, 2019, 7:32 am wrote:ON Trump's orange face, ...I believe that the white and color levels used in cameras are what ENHANCES whatever Trump uses on his face that pops out.

Both very amusing turns of phrase.

Is your question about whether the "manifesto" is available or whether it is legitimate? Because I can link it if that's all you're after.

Ha ha...I didn't actually mean anything like that [if you interpreted this metaphorically] but now I see how funny that is.

Yes, I wanted to first look at the claimed writing (or 'manifesto') before establishing what it is. The term, "manifesto" is derogatory today in this context and so when a 'report' on a criminal event specifies it this way in the media, it acts as an 'opinion' expressed along with the facts.


[I chose to say "non-Fox media" to refrain from debate to whether it is or is not an appropriate 'media'. Cable providers in Canada do not offer the Fox News channel as part of the regular subscriptions along with our own network news and so complaints against them is itself relative 'news' to me. I always understood them to be a form of 'rag magazine' channel with overt favoritism to conservative ideas. The 'white and color' comparisons were actually about the literal light levels in the camera, not about people's races.]
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Lomax on August 7th, 2019, 6:56 am 

Facebook seems to be taking it down so hopefully this link will last long enough for you to read it: Manifesto

I should add that from what I can tell, the legitimacy of the manifesto is still under investigation.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Serpent on August 7th, 2019, 11:12 am 

Lomax » August 7th, 2019, 5:56 am wrote:I should add that from what I can tell, the legitimacy of the manifesto is still under investigation.

I don't understand this. What is meant by 'legitimacy'? And what is the doubt?
I confess not having followed closely on what police are saying, because I got tired of all the repetition of what they're not saying.

Regarding facial colouration. That's fascinating. I had no idea that the colour filters on video cameras can be calibrated so specifically or so universally. Ie. why only one person in the world looks like that on all televisions.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby TheVat on August 7th, 2019, 12:05 pm 

I took "legitimacy" to mean confirmation that the El Paso shooter was the source.

If something is presented in the format of a manifesto, it doesn't seem too prejudicial to call it a manifesto. The pejorative aspect of the word would lie in the mind of the reader, it seems to me. I have read many good, thoughtful manifestos, as well as deranged ranting ones, so I still see the term as neutral.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Serpent on August 7th, 2019, 2:35 pm 

TheVat » August 7th, 2019, 11:05 am wrote:I took "legitimacy" to mean confirmation that the El Paso shooter was the source.

I'm concerned about what alternate sources are under consideration.
I mean, if he didn't write it, was it planted? If so, when? Presumably before the shooting, in order to turn up so very quickly. That sounds awfully like a conspiracy for which he was the designated bag-holder. More importantly, if there is such a conspiracy, how big is it and what are its plans?
I'm sure I'm not alone in this wild conjecture.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby hyksos on August 7th, 2019, 10:38 pm 

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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Serpent on August 7th, 2019, 10:51 pm 

Do they all come from the same factory? Mattel stamp on the back of his neck?
Erm - allegedly killed? What, like, they're just playing possum?
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Lomax on August 8th, 2019, 6:38 am 

Serpent » August 7th, 2019, 7:35 pm wrote:
TheVat » August 7th, 2019, 11:05 am wrote:I took "legitimacy" to mean confirmation that the El Paso shooter was the source.

I'm concerned about what alternate sources are under consideration.
I mean, if he didn't write it, was it planted? If so, when? Presumably before the shooting, in order to turn up so very quickly.

My understanding is that the first known source is 8chan, on which somebody posted it. They claimed the shooter had uploaded it to Instagram before the event, although there seems to be some dispute about this, as it's not there now. (Presumably the Google cache feature won't work if his account was private.) As to the speed, the whole thing is incoherent; you or I could have typed up something better in two minutes if we were inclined to pull a hoax. Jury's still out as far as my spot on the bench is concerned.

EDIT: according to NBC it was uploaded on 8chan prior to the incident, which is somewhat more suggestive. But it hasn't been confirmed that the uploader and shooter are the same guy. It seems likely though, unless this sort of stuff is uploaded by the hour, which I'd like to believe isn't the case.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Scott Mayers on August 8th, 2019, 8:40 am 

Serpent » August 7th, 2019, 10:12 am wrote:
Lomax » August 7th, 2019, 5:56 am wrote:I should add that from what I can tell, the legitimacy of the manifesto is still under investigation.

I don't understand this. What is meant by 'legitimacy'? And what is the doubt?
I confess not having followed closely on what police are saying, because I got tired of all the repetition of what they're not saying.

Regarding facial colouration. That's fascinating. I had no idea that the colour filters on video cameras can be calibrated so specifically or so universally. Ie. why only one person in the world looks like that on all televisions.

Very pale skin (northern european/scandinavian) would have a higher reflection on what is called "white balance" on television cameras. I can't speak for which cameras they use particularly for media on Trump. But cameras can detect very slight differences not normally noticeable unless in poorer lighting. If Trump uses tanning solutions or if he uses a tanning wearing goggles, the camera CAN pick up these subtleties. What I don't get is how this cannot be normally fixed,...especially on todays better tech unless it was intentional. Don't take my word for it absolutely given my own experience was on older cameras years ago. Movies used to be make using one camera specifically because the differences in subtle degrees between two would show up (film cameras). Most of today's can use video cameras even without the degree of lighting needed before. In about 1999, a new technique for filming enabled them to use multiple cameras without a problem (think "The Matrix" where they use multiple surround cameras to get that freeze effect.)

I am NOT for Trump. But I don't approve of tactics used by ANYONE to ill effect, even of those of my own personal preference in politics. When I saw how orange his face looked the first time, I thought it was out of the norm. What would help is to compare different images of the same events by various different people to determine if anything was done on purpose.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Scott Mayers on August 8th, 2019, 8:41 am 

Lomax » August 7th, 2019, 5:56 am wrote:Facebook seems to be taking it down so hopefully this link will last long enough for you to read it: Manifesto

I should add that from what I can tell, the legitimacy of the manifesto is still under investigation.

Thank you. I managed to get a copy saved and will look at it later.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Lomax on August 8th, 2019, 8:44 am 

White-balancing offsets the blue light of the great outdoors, or the green light of the drab indoors. It affects the whole picture - recalibrates its colour balance according to some suitably white thing you've presented to it. I don't see how it could specifically affect Trump without affecting those around him, or how it could make him look more orange relative to his surroundings. Maybe there's a Snapchat filter, though.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Scott Mayers on August 8th, 2019, 9:04 am 

TheVat » August 7th, 2019, 11:05 am wrote:I took "legitimacy" to mean confirmation that the El Paso shooter was the source.

If something is presented in the format of a manifesto, it doesn't seem too prejudicial to call it a manifesto. The pejorative aspect of the word would lie in the mind of the reader, it seems to me. I have read many good, thoughtful manifestos, as well as deranged ranting ones, so I still see the term as neutral.

I think the same way normally. But because the media uses the word KNOWING how the context by most of the population would interpret it as derogatory, it is hard to be certain.

My own inquiry on these things relates to my preference to see the media be open without censoring. Here in Canada, our CBC site uses a mandatory censoring system that hides those moderating without accountability. I noticed that when I signed up, they required real names and means that could certainly identify you should you be abusive. However, one time (long after I already have participated in open topics there), I noticed that some of what I would write would get passed only to discover that I wasn't able to respond to others where needed for continuity. This media is the public's yet the WAY it was moderated made the moderators technically able to FRAME how and what was said by those writing and from my own experience proved troublesome because I couldn't completely exhaust my communications that would make it look like I either gave up or left the thread looking odd for how only SOME of what I'd say get through. So I stopped after complaining to them.

Then, one day on the CBC news, they announced that they were going to stop ANY commenting upon stories related to our Aboriginals. They claimed that too many people were being abusive AND that they had no means to track those comments to. This I know was a lie from my own experience. Further more, we could no longer check the validity of the supposed abuses because they closed it off. I disagree with censorship being used this way (especially by OUR public forums) regardless of supposed concerns of 'abuses' because we have no means to MEASURE this ourselves.

This is why I'm more skeptical of ANY media reports these days where even the general views of specific medias is understood to be more 'liberal'. To me, stations like Fox are obvious to the thinker as being ragmag material. And yet we hear more of it as though they mean more when the very concern only EMPOWERS that source.

I am tired of these mass killings but know that they way all media in general uses certain language, like 'manifesto' and with usual clarity that the person was 'white', etc, only FUELS the frustration of some who often have personal issues in which society today scapegoats certain stereotypes upon unusual representations of minorities of minorities. That this person could be mentally ill or even possibly abused by the way our society can upon some subsets without necessary overt conspiracy can still lead such events to occur. I don't know what the solution is. But it helps if at least we all get real access to the data related to these events so that at least somebody somewhere may be able to figure out how to help change things for the better. Censorship though is NOT the answer and it only makes things worse in my opinion.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Scott Mayers on August 8th, 2019, 9:14 am 

Lomax » August 8th, 2019, 7:44 am wrote:White-balancing offsets the blue light of the great outdoors, or the green light of the drab indoors. It affects the whole picture - recalibrates its colour balance according to some suitably white thing you've presented to it. I don't see how it could specifically affect Trump without affecting those around him, or how it could make him look more orange relative to his surroundings. Maybe there's a Snapchat filter, though.

The point is that we shouldn't be insulting the way he looks regardless. I liked and enjoyed how comedy uses it, such as in shows like "The Family Guy". But playing into it when being critical of ones' behavior is what leads to stereotyping. What, for instance, would happen if you happen to have red hair and pale skin with the same kind of appearance to Trump but don't have any association to it? To me, I don't wonder how this kind of behavior DOESN'T influence how some out there become isolated. At least on this kind of factor, we shouldn't ACT like Fox news where they WOULD use appearances as caricatures to flaunt people in rag-mag style. I don't care what someone was wearing or looking like when some event occurs. How, for instance, does the fact that Barbra Bush was wearing her pearl necklace when she died matter? (as I remember expressed on even our CBC news)
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Lomax on August 8th, 2019, 9:24 am 

Scott Mayers » August 8th, 2019, 2:04 pm wrote:
TheVat » August 7th, 2019, 11:05 am wrote:I took "legitimacy" to mean confirmation that the El Paso shooter was the source.

If something is presented in the format of a manifesto, it doesn't seem too prejudicial to call it a manifesto. The pejorative aspect of the word would lie in the mind of the reader, it seems to me. I have read many good, thoughtful manifestos, as well as deranged ranting ones, so I still see the term as neutral.

I think the same way normally. But because the media uses the word KNOWING how the context by most of the population would interpret it as derogatory, it is hard to be certain.

My own inquiry on these things relates to my preference to see the media be open without censoring.

I quite agree - which is why I linked the alleged manifesto - and I'm lucky to work for a publication which almost certainly wouldn't cower from sharing, say, the Danish cartoons. The editor-in-chief is an Ethics PhD student with a strong free speech bent, and my co-editor is a constitutional law student and First Amendment scholar.

The document very definitely meets the definition of a manifesto. It's a statement of ideology, motivation and intention. I've actually never noticed anybody implying that manifestos are necessarily intelligent, virtuous or sane.

Scott Mayers » August 8th, 2019, 2:04 pm wrote:Then, one day on the CBC news, they announced that they were going to stop ANY commenting upon stories related to our Aboriginals. They claimed that too many people were being abusive AND that they had no means to track those comments to.

I'd have been glad that such people were drawn to my print space. It's often so hard to draw them into debate. We all know people who stonewall either left-leaning or right-leaning sources, and I expect that's a common feature of people who end up like the El-Paso or the Dayton shooter, respectively. A bloodshot, extreme and intellectually vacuous political stance is surely an inevitable consequence of not seeking out the most reasonable supporters of opposing views.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Serpent on August 8th, 2019, 10:28 am 

As to the manifesto, thanks, now I see the legal problem of attribution. There remains the terrifying fact of its existence, especially if the originator(s) are still at large and ready to repeat their actions. Even if it's a hoax, the implications are sinister enough.

As to Trump's appearance on television - it shouldn't matter that he uses a substance on his face that makes him look orange. It might matter that someone so vain doesn't listen to his makeup artist any more than he does to his intelligence agencies - though at least he hasn't insulted the makeup artist on air.
It does matter that he looks demented - increasingly so, over the last two years.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby Scott Mayers on August 8th, 2019, 1:13 pm 

Okay, I read the 'manifesto' and see that he even refers it as such. But it seems contrived and we should probably wait to see some authentication. It seems odd that he doesn't spell out what his own concern is to his personal issues specifically. You'd think that he'd have had some more personal issues than that ABOUT others.

Interestingly enough, he ends by assuring us that he wasn't acting due to Trump and doesn't sound particularly religious either.

So from this, I would definitely be suspect of this as his own manifesto on its surface. It looks too contrived. The style of his mention of using ammo doesn't fit with the rest where he seemed more cogent, doesn't seem to have a mental issue and lacks actual human motivation for his behavior.
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Re: White male mass shooters above the clouds.

Postby hyksos on August 8th, 2019, 1:30 pm 

(Sorry about the sidebar into physics.)
Commercial flourescent tube lighting actually has a strong greenish-yellow tint to it. Ironically, our human iris filters it out making everything look white. I owned a cheap logitech webcam purchased around 2003 that did not filter that yellow-green frequency. That's when I saw it for the first time.

Also, if you point a TV remote into the camera of a mobile phone and press buttons, you can see the infrared light up. The infrared registers as a pale white in the CCDs.
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