I need help re Eluard and Ernst

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I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby violet on October 15th, 2015, 3:20 pm 

Hi,

I need help figuring out a Max Ernst painting next to Paul Eluard's poem "Max Ernst." It's a color print of a painting, presumably by Ernst, with a big orange vertical fish with a black and white scene coming out of its mouth. I can't find that painting anywere on the net and I want to identify it. It's in Eluard's book Capital of Pain translated by Richard M. Weisman.

"Max Ernst" is the first poem in the section called Repetitions, and even though the poem does refer to fish and the white circles in the black sky, sort of, its imagery doesn't exactly correspond to that painting. I would like to get a better idea about the painting that was put next to it, and about the poem itself.

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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 15th, 2015, 5:24 pm 

Violet, I don't find it in my art books. However, our art museum has quite a German artists collection as well as often brings in exhibits of German artists. Max Ernst certainly sounds German. I once spoke with someone there about what they thought was their best attraction and she was taken with their German collection. You might Google Saint Louis Art Museum and see if anyone there can help.

If that doesn't work, I'll be there the second week in November and can scan some of the books in their stores. The name certainly sounds familiar. Meanwhile, I'll keep digging deeper.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby violet on October 16th, 2015, 10:26 am 

vivian maxine » October 15th, 2015, 3:24 pm wrote:I'll be there the second week in November and can scan some of the books in their stores. The name certainly sounds familiar. Meanwhile, I'll keep digging deeper.


Thank you, Vivian. I'm going to try my public library tomorrow. You can look at the pic I'm trying to identify.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... stFish.jpg
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 16th, 2015, 11:18 am 

Thank you for the picture. That helps. Last evening I found an online page with many of his paintings but, once leaving, was never able to find it again. Later perhaps.

Meanwhile, if you do not get a good answer from our museum library, there is one other possibility. I am far out in left field with this one. No really good reason for it other than the tiny fact that the third wife of Max Ernst was Peggy Guggenheim. That made me want to say does one of the Guggenheim museums have the original?

Just a wild thought but there are three such museums that I know of and one does have a web site.

Solomon Guggenheim (Peggy's uncle) had a museum built in New York City to house his collection. Later the better-known Guggenheim museum was built in Bilboa, Spain. (Striking architecture there) The, third: Peggy herself opened a museum in, I think, Venice.

The museum in Spain does have a web site. I don't know about the other two. And, as I said, it is just a wild guess that any of them could answer your question.

And, as long as I'm going far afield. The Metropolitan Museum of Art has a wonderful search capability for anything they have.

Please keep me informed. On November 13, I'll be going to our art museum and will - as always - be checking their books.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 16th, 2015, 5:12 pm 

violet » October 16th, 2015, 9:26 am wrote:
vivian maxine » October 15th, 2015, 3:24 pm wrote:I'll be there the second week in November and can scan some of the books in their stores. The name certainly sounds familiar. Meanwhile, I'll keep digging deeper.


Thank you, Vivian. I'm going to try my public library tomorrow. You can look at the pic I'm trying to identify.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... stFish.jpg


Violet, that is a cat in a fish. He has a painting called something about the agony of a fish or the agonized fish. Let's do some googling of those words. Dinner is calling now but I'll stay with it.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby dandelion on October 17th, 2015, 7:32 am 

An outer figure may be bird-like, like a threatening nightingale or like "Loplop, Superior of Birds", e.g., “And Loplop, bird superior, has transformed himself into flesh without flesh and will dwell among us...” The Hundred Headless Woman, Ernst.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby violet on October 21st, 2015, 12:37 pm 

Thanks for the tips on the Guggenheims.

Today I'm going to pick up two Ernst books from the library and have a look. Anyhow, even if I never find what I'm looking for, I AM leaning a helluvalot, always good!

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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 21st, 2015, 2:29 pm 

Good luck. I learned a lot, too. I'd heard his name before but didn't know as much as I do now. Let me know.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby dandelion on October 22nd, 2015, 9:48 am 

I think the title of the work facing the poem is "Faites Mon Portrait".
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 22nd, 2015, 9:52 am 

Hmmmm. Let's see if I can bring that up. Thanks


Sorry. I am not getting it. I even tried it under translation. I'll try further.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby dandelion on October 25th, 2015, 6:54 am 

Ok, sorry, I'm not sure, or it might not be on the internet? Also, this was published more than once, I think with some modification, and some of Ernst’s work was used in different ways, so works might have a title in some cases and not others, so it might be right and wrong. I think a number of Ernst’s works used went untitled, or named for a poem with it or were descriptive or given titles possibly in other uses of the image, e.g., a work seems to known by two titles, “La Parole” or “Femme-Oiseau” (“The Word”- the title of the poem with it, or “Bird-Woman” more literally descriptive) http://www.barbaraleibowitsgraphics.com ... ooks9.html, and http://uploads4.wikiart.org/images/max- ... d-1921.jpg , 1921, another of Ernst’s re-used contributions seems to have shapes without life-like sheep, but is called “Sheep”, and others like the front piece, seem not to be titled, but I’m not sure what authority all this is on. Also, I think the words of the title I suggested belong in another poem in the book/section, but could have been re-used. I’m not so sure of the grammar, I think it is ambiguous, an imperative commanding an unspoken other, like “(You) shall do my portrait!”? But wrong or not, that title seems to fit quite well, I think. But that probably doesn’t help much, perhaps try contacting http://www.bljd.sorbonne.fr/?lang=eng ?

Helpful or not, the suggested title could fit with the book/section title “Répétitions” and the poem title, because it sort of echoes or repeats the poem’s title with a referential ambiguity of such things as a collaboration.

This echoes the production, where techniques Ernst was noted for, like wood block collage, re-used fragments that had prior existence in other works, which are repeated in new contexts. I think the poems similarly include fragments of already existing text. Also, Ernst’s work in the book includes representations of figures similar to some previously used, like birds, headless woman, phallic fish, eyes, spheres, hats, etc, and which would be repeated again in later works, in new ways. And I think the idea was that Ernst’s pieces were already created when Eluard chose them, and possibly wrote more with them in mind, but did have some poems already created too, and a couple had already been published before. So these were taken and placed in a new context together, and may not as literally correspond as they might, but they could continue their work and their creations could continue to become close in different ways.

And if that might be a title, it seems sort of visually suited, too. One reason could be an inclusion of a large bird-likeness, something Ernst adopted as a psychoanalytic self-portrait. The birds of other works are less proportionally large, and the shape less essential to the centred and outwardly recurring contoured composition of the work. There seems an ambiguous number of figures, maybe two birds, like in '“The Word” or “Woman-bird”', and figures may be present with plumes and another in blank negative space, in absence, in possibly repetitions of identity or loss, or could indicate other facets or attributes or Aufhebung of the artist. It could also suggest an identity that includes other beings, such as the relationship of the creators of the book entity. Or, also things such as the parties involved may have already become a threesome, so possibly involving representation of inward or outward iterations of self/selves.

This would be based on things like that “Repetitions” suggests ideas about how accidents or contingencies converge to create new contexts, or for example, “…Deleuze declares that difference is thinkable only as repetition repeating itself (as in Nietzsche's eternal return), where difference affirms itself in eternally differing from itself.” (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/postmodernism/ ) And there are also psychoanalytic ideas involved, (e.g. around that time bought the oil painting “Oedipus Rex”, 1922, from Ernst, with two birds) and ideas about questioning or shocking and mocking traditions and themselves, as a counter to various ills.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 25th, 2015, 7:20 am 

Don't forget Ernst was a surrealist. His works are liable to go anywhere and say anything. There was a spell there where experimenting artists seemed to try hard to produce something totally incomprehensible. (MHO).

As for title, often the artist did not title a painting. His agent, in trying to sell it, might put a title to it. Or a later owner might do so. Have you ever seen a picture of a painting labeled "untitled" and then followed by a title?

I still think our museum had a Max Ernst show not too long ago. I'll not forget to see what I can see when I'm there. They have two book stores and a great library. Something should turn up.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby dandelion on October 25th, 2015, 8:26 am 

Yes, words are a province of a poet, and many things and nothing much could be interpreted from that piece. Good luck.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby violet on October 25th, 2015, 12:15 pm 

I still think our museum had a Max Ernst show not too long ago. I'll not forget to see what I can see when I'm there. They have two book stores and a great library. Something should turn up.


Thank you, vivian.

I'm currently reading a great book on Ernst from the Menil Collection, called Max Ernst: Dada and the Dawn of Surrealism, which covers the years 1912 - 1927... and even though I still haven't found the painting included in the translated Capital of Pain, I'm really enjoying the experience and what I'm learning.

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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 25th, 2015, 12:34 pm 

Violet, I re-read your OP. You said the painting was "presumably" done by Max Ernst. Can I assume that this means it is almost certainly his but there is a small possibility that it is not? In other words, keep an open mind about it?

Also, you wanted to know more about the poem itself. I did find a good analysis with comment about the poem online. Have you found that?
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby violet on October 30th, 2015, 6:00 pm 

vivian,

I would like to see the analysis. Got a link?

As for the fish painting, I am now convinced it is by Max Ernst. It is either one of his lost paintings, or it is owned by a private collector who will not share it with the public.

Why none of the paintings in the Weisman translation of Eluard's Capital of Pain are not attributed is very annoying, but there may be a reason for that, I guess.

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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 30th, 2015, 6:19 pm 

violet » October 30th, 2015, 5:00 pm wrote:vivian,

I would like to see the analysis. Got a link?

As for the fish painting, I am now convinced it is by Max Ernst. It is either one of his lost paintings, or it is owned by a private collector who will not share it with the public.

Why none of the paintings in the Weisman translation of Eluard's Capital of Pain are not attributed is very annoying, but there may be a reason for that, I guess.

violet


Violet, I have written myself a note to search for this tomorrow if you don't mind. I am on here much later than I should be and really must shut down asap. I know I found it at a poetry site that listed many poets, including Eluard. What I Googled was "Paul Eluard, poet". Please confirm the title again.

Thank you. I shall return.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on October 31st, 2015, 4:58 pm 

Violet, I have searched all I can bring up and have not found that review. This seems to happen too often. I access a web site. then, when I try again, it isn't listed at Google. I've no idea why but I shall continue to try.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on November 3rd, 2015, 8:22 am 

Violet, a friend found a digitized copy of the book online. There is no painting beside the poem. Instead there is what looks like cursive library notes.


Author:

Paul Éluard; Max Ernst
Publisher:

Paris : Au Sans Pareil, 1922.

I found a digitized version of the book, http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=u ... 1up;seq=13, but the image is missing from the Max Ernst poem.

I'll check for more on this Friday.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby violet on November 5th, 2015, 8:28 pm 

Vivian, the five color prints of paintings are in the English translation by Weisman, not the original French version which contained six Ernst collages.

I have pretty much decided that those paintings are part of a private collection without public access.

It's such a shame, but it was fun learning more about Ernst, Dada, and the surrealists during the search.

Thanks again,
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on November 6th, 2015, 7:42 am 

violet » November 5th, 2015, 7:28 pm wrote:Vivian, the five color prints of paintings are in the English translation by Weisman, not the original French version which contained six Ernst collages.

I have pretty much decided that those paintings are part of a private collection without public access.

It's such a shame, but it was fun learning more about Ernst, Dada, and the surrealists during the search.

Thanks again,
violet


You are likely right. I'll be at the museum today. It will not do any harm to ask. If, by any luck, something turns up. I'll let you know. If not, we at least learned a bit about two men.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby dandelion on November 8th, 2015, 12:13 pm 

I said works can offer different interpretations, but will add that similar interpretations relating the poem from the collaborative book and iterations can be drawn from other works. As an example, I’ll write more about a couple of paintings. One I mentioned because Eluard bought it with another painting around that time and the title seemed relevant, and the other is the other painting Eluard bought with it. I’d also mentioned shock and humour, and this interpretation could exemplify that too. Around the time of the “Repetitions” collaboration Eluard bought two pieces from Ernst, “Oedipus Rex”, 1922, http://uploads5.wikiart.org/images/max- ... x-1922.jpg which was mentioned previously because of the strong relationship between that title and a word in the first line, rearranged in the last, and “Celebes”, 1921.

For some rough background, the paintings of proto-surrealist, De Chirico, in Turin especially, were heavily influenced by Nietzschean aesthetics (e.g. http://a07.cgpublisher.com/proposals/119/index_html ). De Chirico’s juxtaposition of disparate things, particularly apollonian/Dionysian juxtapositions, were from ideas which De Chirico attributed to Nietzsche. Ernst and other Cologne Dadaists were in turn influenced by such ideas, as well as by other things like psychiatry and communism. De Chirico’s style may be seen in Ernst’s “Oedipus Rex”, with the eerily angled perspective it shares with the works De Chirico had been painting for many years by then. Although interrelated, the Parisian Surrealists tended to be more influenced by psychological ideas than others.

Nietzsche, like many others, wrote about mythical King who answered the Sphinx’s riddle and with tragic knowledge blinded himself who shares the name with one of the paintings, and like the painting, Nietzsche differed from other re-workings of the story of incest by placing particular importance on “nut-cracking”/riddle solving. Also mentioned previously, there are two bird-like representations in that painting. The birds are not free, unlike Nietzsche’s Vogelfrei (Bird-free, a wandering criminal), linked to Ernst’s birds by Stokes, but constricted, like hatchery chickens, their heads locked in by the apollonian-like calm surface. This also has the bird heads resembling pawns, isolated, with set relationships, their bodies below are concealed from that plane (Ernst re-uses chess allusions). The bird’s eyes are red, one especially, like Oedipus, blinded in reaction to knowledge of the abyss, taken to that higher, rational plane.

Eluard repeats the same words, “In a corner”, a meeting of different planes, but poetically parts of planes might meet as associations- converging occurrences- rather than as representations of physical edges.

Extended from another plain, through a window, is a hand and nut. Placed in the foreground, with different scale, it looks like a detached demonstration. Spies wrote of a connection of the nut with Nietzsche, who referred to beings such as he was, as nut-crackers of souls, and of divine nut-crackers able to divine an answer to the riddle/ crack the nut, important to Nietzsche’s work. The held nut image source, http://www.ricochet-jeunes.org/magazine ... tinat8.jpg, is said to be from a French scientific journal, La Nature, in a section titled “Physics without devices”, the image illustrating elasticity (Warlick). The journal was founded by a scientist, Trissandier, with many contributions and illustrations by his brother, a fellow balloon enthusiast (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Tissandier).

Ernst modified the image in various ways. He coloured it. He widened and refined the nail of the thumb and thinned the shadows of the thumb and index finger shapes, making them more prominent and lighter and agile looking. He added the thorns or whatever, which I think includes instruments to sever hatchery chicken legs (also used in another of Ernst’s works, https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... b50a20.jpg ), which among other things could allude to an Oedipal related Freudian anxiety idea, in the context of the sexual allusions united in this plain. The curves and texture of the nut became more oval and smoother. The nut was parted by thumb and index finger. On the other side of the nut, he adjusted the shape of the middle and ring finger-tips to become more rounded and pointed, breast-like, painted nearby, but given painted perspective, more distant from, the redder eye. This plane might not be seen by the birds, perhaps, further away in the mid-ground, locked facing the other way and blind. He also added the arrow, pointing to potential convergence with another plane, the background sky. There is a balloon in the distant sky, although black through distance, it is possibly a white ball delivered from a stormy depth, possibly ascending.

A storm, something like the painting, “Celebes” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elephant_Celebes, where there are fish in the top, left “corner”, possibly elsewhere along the higher plane surface of that picture, related to the Freudian anxiety mentioned before.

In the plane of water depth, lower, there is a headless woman, a mechanical, chimaeric monster, etc. Later in the 1930’s Jung referenced supposed traditions in Celebes, as the island of Sulawesi was called, exemplifying his psychological interpretation of Nietzschean thought, with communal activity involving criminals, spears, and sharing by the whole. And given the headless woman, the totem, the spear, the rhyme wiki mentions and variations, etc., this may be construed with sexual allegories, but also further, it could be allegorical of some new unification of fractured fragments, like the hybrid elephant itself, http://www.jstor.org/stable/1465040?seq ... b_contents . This different plane may be below the Oedipal painting, like whatever is concealed below the plane that imprisons the blind bird heads. It may be under-water, the Celebes Sea, or like Captain Nemo’s world, and seems to be Dionysian. The mechanical monster has a dark green-grey tinge, and the background is a paler blue-green grey colour.

But, regarding the balloon again, “a clear area of all eyes” may refer to being clear of eyes, as in the paintings with blinded eyes in one and holes for eyes in the other (although there may be some eye at the top of the hybrid), or a clear with all eyes may be the sky with the balloon, would have spectators aboard, would be associated with more novel, bird’s eye, views, and has been linked with images by Surrealist precursor, Redon, like this – http://categorized-art-collection.tumbl ... -the-grand. As well, Ernst depicts balloons like this elsewhere, for example, http://40.media.tumblr.com/0693e2187cfe ... o1_500.jpg “Fantomas, Dante and Jules Verne” from La femme 100 têtes, Ernst, 1929. The balloon also seems to refer to Ernst’s many other works with the eyes and spheres, for just one e.g., the cover of the book “Repetitions” with a detached, threaded spherical eye.

There seems to be a past, the bird’s eyes already red, the white balls delivered following a storm, and a future, with, e.g. fish anticipated, yet also mention of immobility. This could suggest the balloon is able to move between planes, but also could suggest the all eyes could be those of viewers or poets, in the clear area outside the paintings. Viewer's eyes flickering over the features of the different paintings, noticing different parts, and in this process seeing things in different sequences, with differing parts becoming associated with others, and assigning different, novel meanings may possibly give a visual guide to the poem or new ones. Regarding collage, Ernst said, "It is the systematic exploitation of the coincidental or artificially provoked encounter of two of more unrelated realities on an apparently inappropriate plane and the spark of poetry created by the proximity of these realities" (Walther, Suckale, 2002), also quoted in the wiki Celebes page). This could be as if solving two painted halves of a nut, or possibly finding answers to the riddle through many pieces within Ernst’s wider oeuvre. So, in an interpretation like this, the poem could be a created spark, an answer to the riddle.

This is a slightly different interpretation, not sure of the authority, but uses many of the same images-https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://ruedeslumieres.morkitu.org/apprendre/fresques/index_oedipe_rex.html&prev=search

Regarding other interpretations, although Penrose’s book on the Charlton Lectures about Celebes looks familiar, I don’t think I've read it, and not sure what is said.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on November 8th, 2015, 12:50 pm 

You really have a rich store of knowledge about Ernst's paintings, dandelion. I want to take this with me when I return to the museum this coming week. I may not care much for Ernst's paintings, but I begin to see what he was doing. He had a purpose.

What I found at the museum library was a six-volume collection of photographs of his works. You probably know it: "Max Ernst - CEUVRE-KATALOG WERKE". I got through two volumes and noticed some interesting things about his works. One was how he seemed to use the same basic design over and over for different subjects. I cannot describe it as well as you but the basic design, for example, of this fish was also used to show totally different pictures.

I remember the balloon and the elephants. Many others that slowed me down. There was even one picture that came very close to the one we are especially looking for. I have it tagged until I find one closer.

About the poem: I mentioned that I'd found a very good analysis of that poem and cannot find it again. One thing I read in it is that the poem uses many words that do not mean what they mean to us today. The author pointed out "incest" and said it does not refer to incest as we know it. He also spoke of the birds.

I really must work on finding that again. I had a thought and asked a friend who is far more knowledgeable about computers than I. She said it could well be that, since these pages make their money from the ads and I read that page without clicking on any ad, it might not come up for me again. Instead, I would get other pages. It had something to do with cookies and tracking. I clean out my cookies daily but that doesn't mean Google doesn't know what I read and did not "buy" from.

So, I shall be back at the museum one day this week. I really want to see the rest of those pictures. With so many - and every page had two or three, sometimes more - I have hopes of finding our fish. The books are quite large (and heavy). Surely our fish is there somewhere.

Thank you again, dandelion. It's always good to know more about what we're looking at. As Violet aid, even if we never find the fish we've learned a lot.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby Marshall on November 8th, 2015, 1:12 pm 

This post of dandelion has links to some amazing artwork. The last link doesn't come through so I want to try to fix it:
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://ruedeslumieres.morkitu.org/apprendre/fresques/index_oedipe_rex.html&prev=search

The original page has text in French but Dandelion invoked "translate.google" so it reads mostly in English. this is a help to me because I read slowly in French. But in case someone prefers the French version I will add the direct link to that

http://ruedeslumieres.morkitu.org/apprendre/fresques/index_oedipe_rex.html
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby Marshall on November 8th, 2015, 1:31 pm 

Vivian Maxine, thanks for the link to the Paul Éluard poem titled "Max Ernst"! It is exceedingly strange! I will try to copy it here for convenient reference:
SS8Nov.png

Maybe someone would like to translate?
Here is a rough beginning of a translation.

In one corner nimble incest
Turns around the virginity of a little dress.
In another corner the heaven delivered
On the points of angels drops white balls.

In another corner, brighter than all the eyes,
one awaits the fish of anguish.
In the fourth corner: the carriage of summer greenery
glorious, immobile, and forever.

In the glow of youth
from lately-lit lamps
the first shows her breasts which kill red insects.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on November 8th, 2015, 1:42 pm 

dandelion » October 25th, 2015, 5:54 am wrote:Ok, sorry, I'm not sure, or it might not be on the internet? Also, this was published more than once, I think with some modification, and some of Ernst’s work was used in different ways, so works might have a title in some cases and not others, so it might be right and wrong. I think a number of Ernst’s works used went untitled, or named for a poem with it or were descriptive or given titles possibly in other uses of the image, e.g., a work seems to known by two titles, “La Parole” or “Femme-Oiseau” (“The Word”- the title of the poem with it, or “Bird-Woman” more literally descriptive) http://www.barbaraleibowitsgraphics.com ... ooks9.html, and http://uploads4.wikiart.org/images/max- ... d-1921.jpg , 1921, another of Ernst’s re-used contributions seems to have shapes without life-like sheep, but is called “Sheep”, and others like the front piece, seem not to be titled, but I’m not sure what authority all this is on. Also, I think the words of the title I suggested belong in another poem in the book/section, but could have been re-used. I’m not so sure of the grammar, I think it is ambiguous, an imperative commanding an unspoken other, like “(You) shall do my portrait!”? But wrong or not, that title seems to fit quite well, I think. But that probably doesn’t help much, perhaps try contacting http://www.bljd.sorbonne.fr/?lang=eng ?

Helpful or not, the suggested title could fit with the book/section title “Répétitions” and the poem title, because it sort of echoes or repeats the poem’s title with a referential ambiguity of such things as a collaboration.

This echoes the production, where techniques Ernst was noted for, like wood block collage, re-used fragments that had prior existence in other works, which are repeated in new contexts. I think the poems similarly include fragments of already existing text. Also, Ernst’s work in the book includes representations of figures similar to some previously used, like birds, headless woman, phallic fish, eyes, spheres, hats, etc, and which would be repeated again in later works, in new ways. And I think the idea was that Ernst’s pieces were already created when Eluard chose them, and possibly wrote more with them in mind, but did have some poems already created too, and a couple had already been published before. So these were taken and placed in a new context together, and may not as literally correspond as they might, but they could continue their work and their creations could continue to become close in different ways.

And if that might be a title, it seems sort of visually suited, too. One reason could be an inclusion of a large bird-likeness, something Ernst adopted as a psychoanalytic self-portrait. The birds of other works are less proportionally large, and the shape less essential to the centred and outwardly recurring contoured composition of the work. There seems an ambiguous number of figures, maybe two birds, like in '“The Word” or “Woman-bird”', and figures may be present with plumes and another in blank negative space, in absence, in possibly repetitions of identity or loss, or could indicate other facets or attributes or Aufhebung of the artist. It could also suggest an identity that includes other beings, such as the relationship of the creators of the book entity. Or, also things such as the parties involved may have already become a threesome, so possibly involving representation of inward or outward iterations of self/selves.

This would be based on things like that “Repetitions” suggests ideas about how accidents or contingencies converge to create new contexts, or for example, “…Deleuze declares that difference is thinkable only as repetition repeating itself (as in Nietzsche's eternal return), where difference affirms itself in eternally differing from itself.” (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/postmodernism/ ) And there are also psychoanalytic ideas involved, (e.g. around that time bought the oil painting “Oedipus Rex”, 1922, from Ernst, with two birds) and ideas about questioning or shocking and mocking traditions and themselves, as a counter to various ills.


Dandelion, please tell me exactly where you see a bird in this picture? Maybe say what color it is? I printed out the picture and I'm looking at it closely. I can't see a bird.

Thank you.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on November 8th, 2015, 1:56 pm 

Marshall, I found this at Poem Hunter. com

In one corner agile incest
Turns round the virginity of a little dress
In one corner sky released
leaves balls of white on the spines of storm.
In one corner bright with all the eyes
One awaits the fish of anguish.
In one corner the car of summer’s greenery
gloriously motionless forever.

In the glow of youth
lamps lit too late.
The first one shows her breasts that kill the insects that are red
Paul Eluard

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/max-ernst/
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby Marshall on November 8th, 2015, 2:08 pm 

Vivian thanks for finding that Poemhunter translation. I like it. It is a definite improvement in several ways on my rough first attempt.

About that picture
http://uploads4.wikiart.org/images/max- ... d-1921.jpg
I see two birds, one held between her arm and torso, one held between her legs. They are so similar that the two could be the same bird.

the-word-woman-bird-1921.jpg
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby vivian maxine on November 8th, 2015, 2:13 pm 

Marshall » November 8th, 2015, 1:08 pm wrote:http://uploads4.wikiart.org/images/max-ernst/the-word-woman-bird-1921.jpg
I see two birds, one held between arm and torso, one held between legs. They are so similar that the two birds could be the same.


Do I have the wrong picture? Or are we just talking about two different things? What I have is a fish. Now I am very confused. Shall back up to Violet's post. Thanks.
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Re: I need help re Eluard and Ernst

Postby dandelion on November 8th, 2015, 5:06 pm 

Thanks Vivian and Marshall. Thank you for fixing the link.

Yes, Vivian, as I see it, it wouldn't be about that. I’ll look forward to reading anything more, thanks.

That is confusing, I don't see Violet's picture any more, but I saw a bird silhouette in the blank, pale orange colour, and possibly the feathery wings of another that could also be mountainous landscape, in black and white behind. Does that help? The other was an example of another. There are a number like the one Marshall re-posted, including one from much later, 1967, with what seems more like a fish.
http://uploads1.wikiart.org/images/max- ... Medium.jpg
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