Exams and tests are counterproductive

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Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 13th, 2018, 5:39 pm 

I had a discussion with a friend today about exams and tests. The issue is this. We both know a lot of people that we studied together with that were obsessed only with getting good grades on exams. On the other hand, we also studied with people that weren't so interested in the exams, but had a genuine interest in understanding things. The students that cared only about exams often chose the easiest topics, while the students that had a genuine interest in understanding things often chose the most difficult topics. Of course, the students that cared only about getting good grades also usually got better grades than the students that had a genuine interest in understanding things. However, we both agreed that these students were unlikely to ever become famous scientists. On the other hand, the students that had a genuine interest for learning things, might some day become famous scientists. Exams and tests give an incentive to students to only learn what is necessary for the exams. Therefore I think exams and tests are counterproductive.

We also discussed the possibility of making a game, where you learned more science as you progressed in the game. At the end of the semester, those who had accomplished most in the game, would have shown the greatest interest for learning. A little bit like https://brilliant.org/. Maybe students could be measured in a way like this in the future.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby BadgerJelly on April 14th, 2018, 12:39 am 

Some people thrive under exam conditions and others don't. I certainly agree that learning out of interest is better, but things as they are people need to be tested.

To advance far you need to push through the boring stuff and work hard. If we present that idea that great things can be achieved through play and fun alone I'd say we may given the wrong impression.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby BadgerJelly on April 14th, 2018, 3:11 am 

I think BOARD GAMES are the way forward. They educate, expand group interaction and involve decision making, logic and strategy.

I have a million ideas for games and there are already amazing mechanics out there - add in VR and the horizon is open to anyone sooner rather than later.

I'd be more than happy to help produce something if you're interested. The market is vast.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 14th, 2018, 7:36 am 

BadgerJelly » April 13th, 2018, 11:39 pm wrote:To advance far you need to push through the boring stuff and work hard. If we present that idea that great things can be achieved through play and fun alone I'd say we may given the wrong impression.


Imagine your network of understanding to look something like this:

Image

Now, if you grow your understanding at the frontiers, where I have put the red arrows, you will actually derive pleasure from it. However, if you are forced to learn things that you cannot connect to your network of understanding, you will find it boring/uninteresting. This is why I think learning from an AI will work much better. The AI can keep track of where your intellectual frontiers are, and present learning material to you that help you to grow intellectually at the frontiers.

Also, the bigger your network of understanding is, the larger your intellectual frontier is going to be, so for people that have a huge network of understanding, it might be easy to connect all kinds of things to their networks of understanding. And they might derive more pleasure from learning in general, since they might be able to make more connections.

Lots of the problems with traditional education is related to that the students in a class might have different intellectual frontiers. Then someone is always going to find it boring.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 14th, 2018, 8:33 am 

BadgerJelly » April 14th, 2018, 2:11 am wrote:I think BOARD GAMES are the way forward. They educate, expand group interaction and involve decision making, logic and strategy.


Scientific board games are great:

Image

But also learning from toys in general:

Image

Image

Learning doesn't necessarily need to be boring, and a child will certainly find it much more entertaining to play with an educational toy that teaches π, than to memorize the definition of π.

In general, we need to spend a lot of time with concepts to learn them properly. This could be boring rote memorization, or it could simply be to play with educational toys.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby BadgerJelly on April 15th, 2018, 12:34 am 

I prefer text not diagrams. If you write on these forums more I'd suggest dropped the images unless they actually add to what you're saying.

If you have a plan of attack I'd be interested to hear it and even to commit my time to it. Children under ten years of age shouldn't be encouraged to interact with computers. Their time should be at least highly restricted. As Biv pointed out physical interaction is deadly important. I find it worrying to see kids of 4-5 years using tablets and/mobile devices.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby wolfhnd on April 15th, 2018, 3:24 am 

Discipline is necessary, all those geniuses that you have never heard of, those are the ones that lacked focus and ambition. There is virtually nothing more competitive than science but it is a quiet kind of competition. It also has increasingly become a team sport.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 15th, 2018, 4:43 am 

BadgerJelly » April 14th, 2018, 11:34 pm wrote:I
Children under ten years of age shouldn't be encouraged to interact with computers. Their time should be at least highly restricted. As Biv pointed out physical interaction is deadly important. I find it worrying to see kids of 4-5 years using tablets and/mobile devices.


I think so. People working with machine learning algorithms for robots, might have some idea about how difficult it is to make a robot move like a human. Unless young kids are involved in lots of physical play, they are probably not going to develop their motor skills properly. So, we might expect future generations to be extremely clumsy. Another thing that is important with physical play, is to learn to read subtle emotions from physical expressions, and to communicate emotions to each other with physical gestures. These skills might also become severely underdeveloped if 4-5 year old kids are spending all their time with tablets/cellphones.

BadgerJelly » April 14th, 2018, 11:34 pm wrote:If you have a plan of attack I'd be interested to hear it and even to commit my time to it.


I need to deliver my PhD in organic chemistry this year, so I am kinda busy. However, I also think this is extremely important, so I will devote as much time to it as I can.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 15th, 2018, 6:11 pm 

wolfhnd » April 15th, 2018, 2:24 am wrote:Discipline is necessary, all those geniuses that you have never heard of, those are the ones that lacked focus and ambition. There is virtually nothing more competitive than science but it is a quiet kind of competition. It also has increasingly become a team sport.


I think the best teams have some people that have a lot of discipline and are very focused, and some people that aren't necessarily so disciplined and focused, but are very good at coming up with new original ideas.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby wolfhnd on April 15th, 2018, 11:11 pm 

Zanthius » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:11 pm wrote:
wolfhnd » April 15th, 2018, 2:24 am wrote:Discipline is necessary, all those geniuses that you have never heard of, those are the ones that lacked focus and ambition. There is virtually nothing more competitive than science but it is a quiet kind of competition. It also has increasingly become a team sport.


I think the best teams have some people that have a lot of discipline and are very focused, and some people that aren't necessarily so disciplined and focused, but are very good at coming up with new original ideas.


I have 40 years of experience with teams in a somewhat creative environment. My experience has been that there are many people who think they are creative but really are not. To be creative a person must not only be high in trait openness but highly intelligent and well researched especially in today's highly technical world. Having new ideas is fine but those ideas must be grounded in reality.

We have had a long discussion elsewhere in these forums on intelligence but despite all the objections to the standard psychological communities interpretations I have found that efforts to raise IQ are somewhat futile. There are many things you can do to lower IQ and those should be avoided but that is not the issue. The issue is that egalitarianism is an obstacle to an educational system that has everyone's best interest at heart. Competition it turns out is a way for people to find out where they fit in the world.

Early education between the ages of 2 and 4 should focus on play. Children who do not learn to play with others between these ages will never become fully socialized. Beyond that age and throughout formal education I'm not a big fan of grouping people by ability as may have been suggested by my earlier comments. Holding people back from achieving their maximum intellectual achievement is the wrong way of looking at classes with mixed abilities. Grouping by ability reduces the likelihood that people will participate in or even understand the broader team, society at large. As education unavoidably shifts towards AI lead instruction tailored to the individual or at least internet based instruction the segregation of society along IQ lines appears likely to be even more prevalent than today. Something in your scheme should counteract this while still allowing people to advance their education according to their individual ability. The wrong way to do that is to tell people that they are equal or rewarding participation instead of competence.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Serpent on April 16th, 2018, 12:21 am 

Zanthius » April 13th, 2018, 4:39 pm wrote:... Of course, the students that cared only about getting good grades also usually got better grades than the students that had a genuine interest in understanding things. However, we both agreed that these students were unlikely to ever become famous scientists. On the other hand, the students that had a genuine interest for learning things, might some day become famous scientists. Exams and tests give an incentive to students to only learn what is necessary for the exams. Therefore I think exams and tests are counterproductive.

What if you don't need a famous scientist?
What if you need a plumber who can stop the leak in your basement, or a doctor who can diagnose your chronic cough, or an accountant who can get you a tax refund? A genuine interest may lead to all that knowledge, but which will you choose - the one whose teacher wrote "keen student!" on his report card, or the one who has an actual diploma from an institution that specializes in training that profession?
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Event Horizon on April 16th, 2018, 1:58 am 

I'd like to point towards kids, <10 years being significantly more tech savvy than their parents. Most of this ability seems to stem from organic progression outside the classical educational environment.

Personally I never revised any subject. I wanted to be tested on what I actually knew, not what I was going to forget as soon as the exam was over. It seemed to me a more honest measure of what I genuinely knew. I still managed to work for 2 commercial labs, and eventually built my own. I still have some glasswork and things that I probably ought to sell sometime.

Exams are useful in my estimation, but the amount of stress kids are under to perform is intense. Japanese students had a habit of jumping from tall buildings a while ago. I dunno if it has been addressed or not. The pressure of expectation does bad things to kids' minds it would seem.

But how else to pick the one employee you can afford in a year if you don't know what they know and how they compare to their peers?

It's almost like exams are weaponized thesedays, but it would surely be better if tests and exams became just a normal routine school activity.

Science is largely based on exams and tests. If you can't do it at school its a lost resource.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 16th, 2018, 11:18 am 

wolfhnd » April 15th, 2018, 10:11 pm wrote:. As education unavoidably shifts towards AI lead instruction tailored to the individual or at least internet based instruction the segregation of society along IQ lines appears likely to be even more prevalent than today. Something in your scheme should counteract this while still allowing people to advance their education according to their individual ability. The wrong way to do that is to tell people that they are equal or rewarding participation instead of competence.


Since this is a forum for science and philosophy, I guess most of you have an IQ that is above the average. Lots of you also seem to be worried segregation along IQ lines. The thing is, most people don't necessarily compare themselves to other people in regard to how intelligent they are. People also compare themselves to other people in regard to how beautiful they look, or in regard to how wealthy they are. Do you think that if this was a forum for models, they would be worried about segregation according to how beautiful people look?

I think maybe you are overly worried about segregation along IQ lines. As long as we have the same rights for all people, and everybody has the right to vote, I think it will be more or less fine. Instead of worrying about this, maybe you should worry more about super intelligent children in China, India, and Africa, not getting the opportunity to educate themselves because they are born into poverty. To say that people are equal is a lie, and we shouldn't lie. We are just as different inside our brains as we are different in the way we look. We should of course not force everybody to learn at the same speed. We should however strive to make the world so that everybody are born with more or less the same educational opportunities.

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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Serpent on April 16th, 2018, 1:28 pm 

Can't have it every which way:
an economy based on ruthless competition and "let kids be kids"
equality of opportunity but "Why shouldn't I pass my wealth to my children?"
survival of the fittest alongside "lend a helping hand."
excellent schools as well as lower taxes
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 16th, 2018, 2:06 pm 

Serpent » April 16th, 2018, 12:28 pm wrote:Can't have it every which way: excellent schools as well as lower taxes


I only want lower taxes for the poorest. The rich can afford to pay more taxes:

Image

If however I was living in USA, I might not be so supportive of taxes, since they are spending so much tax money on military expenditures, and since so much tax money seem to be "lost" to corruption. For example, Americans pay approximately the same percentage of taxes to healthcare as western Europeans, but many western European countries have more or less free healthcare. Also, since my country doesn't have any foreign debt, none my taxes are used to pay foreign debt. In the US, I think lots of taxes are used to pay foreign debt.

Anyhow, I think it is fair that people should be allowed to be a bit involved in what their tax money is used for. For example, if I want use my tax money on education, but not on military expenditures, I wouldn't necessarily be so happy if my taxes were used on military expenditures:

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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Serpent on April 16th, 2018, 3:28 pm 

A reduction of pastel graphics would be much appreciated.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 16th, 2018, 4:53 pm 

Serpent » April 16th, 2018, 2:28 pm wrote:A reduction of pastel graphics would be much appreciated.


You don't think that it might be easier for people to understand and/or remember such drawings, than for example lines of text?
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Serpent on April 16th, 2018, 5:18 pm 

No, I think they're distracting, annoying and take up way too much space. I can't speak for anyone else, but I scroll past them as quickly as possible to get to the substance.
We're not department-heads or fifth-graders; we can deal with words.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby BadgerJelly on April 16th, 2018, 9:42 pm 

Zanthius » April 17th, 2018, 4:53 am wrote:
Serpent » April 16th, 2018, 2:28 pm wrote:A reduction of pastel graphics would be much appreciated.


You don't think that it might be easier for people to understand and/or remember such drawings, than for example lines of text?


They are pointless pieces of window dressing that make me think you've got nothing of substance to say, or simply lack the ability to write.

It is VERY easy to understand what you're saying because it is simplistic and naïve - maybe there is more depth, but I've not seen much of it yet.

Writing is not easy because the best writers manage to write something that can be grasped by a child, yet treats the reader as being more intelligent than they are.

I don't talk about apples and then present a picture of an apple unless absolutely necessary. I have not seen a single image you've presented that adds to anything you've said. It is merely visual repetition of the words you right - they don't expand the one-dimensional thought nor inspire to read more; more the opposite.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Event Horizon on April 17th, 2018, 1:31 am 

Investment in a child's' education could be interpreted as deferred wealth. It's what's gonna put bread on the table in their adult lives. But some kids are not academic, and addressing this by providing vocational training can mitigate this perceived lack of classical education. It's important to let kids be kids while they can. There is no second bite at childhood.

Some European countries like France, Germany and the Nordic states recognize this and schooling starts later than here in Britain. I don't think it can be said that these countries have got the method wrong, or that the children suffer as a result. On the contrary, these countries have stable, productive societies and some of the highest satisfaction and contentment indexes anywhere in the world.

You do not need to know calculus to train as a jeweler, a soldier (I joined up at age 16) or many other worthy professions. Sorry to drag this back to the issue, but there are other forms of education. Academia is just one form of education among many.

Producing neurotic and unhappy kids just leads to social and psychological problems that are a drain on society, not to mention the unhappiness it causes down the line. It could maybe be argued that a rational approach will also help lift people from a life of crime and deprivation that they could be otherwise forced to live.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 17th, 2018, 4:06 am 

Event Horizon » April 17th, 2018, 12:31 am wrote:Investment in a child's' education could be interpreted as deferred wealth. It's what's gonna put bread on the table in their adult lives. But some kids are not academic, and addressing this by providing vocational training can mitigate this perceived lack of classical education. It's important to let kids be kids while they can. There is no second bite at childhood.


Some of the things which are most beneficial for the cognitive development of children, are probably related to what they are most inclined to do. If playful behavior didn't provide an evolutionary advantage, children probably wouldn't be inclined to play. Playful behavior in mammals seems to provide a form of cognitive training which is important for subsequent survival. So, we should definitely not prevent kids from engaging in play. We might however be able to provide them with more intelligent forms of play. For example with educational toys and educational board games.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 17th, 2018, 4:16 am 

BadgerJelly » April 16th, 2018, 8:42 pm wrote:Writing is not easy because the best writers manage to write something that can be grasped by a child, yet treats the reader as being more intelligent than they are.


I am not a good writer. Never claimed to be. I would actually rate myself as a rather incompetent writer, just like I would rate myself as rather incompetent with lots of other skills. We can't all be good at everything. This is one of the reasons why it is advantageous for people to work in teams.

BadgerJelly » April 16th, 2018, 8:42 pm wrote:It is VERY easy to understand what you're saying because it is simplistic and naïve - maybe there is more depth, but I've not seen much of it yet.


Your statement would have seemed to have a bit more intellectual merit if you were a bit more precise. Exactly why is it simplistic and exactly why is it naive. When people are using a very vague and imprecise language to dismiss ideas (or research), it might be related to confirmation bias.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby BadgerJelly on April 17th, 2018, 5:08 am 

Z -

Exams and tests give an incentive to students to only learn what is necessary for the exams. Therefore I think exams and tests are counterproductive.


This is simplistic because you don't set out the benefits against flaws. It is a one-sided position. It is naïve because there is no inkling of a pragmatic view of what education does in general and how employers select employees.

Generally speaking education is very much aimed at providing the skill sets that we guess the future requires. This allows people to lead productive lives and not to linger in poverty.

There are of course many problems that come with this.

I have said I would be willing to help you out if the plan you had was practical. Exams and tests are essentially assessments. I tell students not to take them seriously and to use them as a guide to show them where they need to fill in the gaps of their knowledge and understanding. I think testing students every year is generally a bad idea, but I also think the option should be there for those that wish to take them.

At the end of the day some kind of standardized test is required at the end of schooling simply because students (as prospective employees) need to be assessed.

I am with you on the gaming side of things and I hope the board gaming community will take more of a centre stage. The thing these games are going to appeal to more geeky types, but geeks are becoming more "fashionable" too.

I like games like Risk or Dominion, I used to imagine and create my own complex games as a teen. Other people are more interested in other things, like sport, clothes design or cooking.

What is your view of online gaming? I was actually discussing this with my friend briefly the other week. He was comparing immersive games with Jungian archetypes based on the roles players choose. We can be sure that online gaming will become more mature because more and more adults play online games and look for something challenging rather than simply aesthetically pleasing or "cool".
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 17th, 2018, 6:02 am 

BadgerJelly » April 17th, 2018, 4:08 am wrote:This is simplistic because you don't set out the benefits against flaws. It is a one-sided position.


Yeah, sure. Do you know that the pharmaceutical industry is using more money on commercialization of drugs than on the development of drugs? Since we are living in a hyper-competitive world, I don’t necessarily think it would benefit you to set out the benefits against flaws. If you do, you might simply be ignored, while somebody that is better at selling themselves get all the attention.

Imagine for example if I developed a new drug which objectively had a 90% probability of curing cancer, but since I wouldn’t want to have a one-sided position, I would also talk a lot about the 10% likelihood of failure. This might seem justifiable from an academic point of view. In the real world, there is however another pharmaceutical company that also has developed a medicine against cancer. Their drug objectively has a 60% probability of curing cancer, but they never talk about the 40% likelihood of failure. Since this pharmaceutical company also is much bigger then mine, they can also use much more money on commercializing their anticancerogenic drug. So, most people end up using their drug, even though it gives them a much lower probability of survival. Unfortunately, this isn’t necessarily a very unrealistic scenario today.

BadgerJelly » April 17th, 2018, 4:08 am wrote:It is naïve because there is no inkling of a pragmatic view of what education does in general and how employers select employees.


I agree with you about this, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it is naive. I would rather say that it is incomplete in its current form, and that much more work must be done to make it functional.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Event Horizon on April 17th, 2018, 6:10 am 

In my estimation practical experience is the best tutor anyone can ever have. It stays with us and informs us throughout childhood and adulthood both. But it needs to go hand-in-hand with a satisfactory education that underpins everything else we learn.

Kids have incredible learning skills almost from birth. At 18 months most kids have learned language(s) that would probably take me years to learn. They learn context and they learn about their environment pretty much simultaneously. Not to put too finer point on it, kids are little learning machines. They will learn independently through much of this. We don't have to force kids to learn, they're gonna learn anyway. Where we come in as adults is to give the tools to succeed.
Schooling is not all about academic success. It's about socialization, discipline and responsibility too. Sports teach teamwork and co-operative interplay.

As I said earlier, and I agree with Badger here, you need as an employer a standard to select your employee(s) by. Exams are a great indicator of a persons' ability compared to their peers. And as I said, there are vocational routes to give less academic students the same chances in life an academic A-grader might expect to enjoy.

When I was at school back in the mists of time, we would be tested at the end of the module we were studying. It was just routine. I might be a bit weird, but I saw them as a chance to show what I could do. I had to do a year's access course to get into uni because while everyone else was doing A-levels, I was in the Army learning a heap of vocational stuff. Thankfully I never had to fire my weapon in anger.

Parents already have a wealth of educational tools at their disposal. Reading, association games, flash-cards, educational games and toys. Learning is in itself a learning experience and everyone has a different way of teaching.

To say that exams are bad or counterproductive is erroneous in my view. How the exams are conducted are probably the actual root of the problem as I understand it.

Here we are. Still learning.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 17th, 2018, 6:21 am 

Event Horizon » April 17th, 2018, 5:10 am wrote:Parents already have a wealth of educational tools at their disposal. Reading, association games, flash-cards, educational games and toys. Learning is in itself a learning experience and everyone has a different way of teaching.


Some parents might buy lots of such toys, while other parents might just leave their kids in front of their iPad. Some parents might give lots of attention to their kids, while other parents ignore their kids. Some parents might socialize their kids with other kids, while other parents isolate their kids. Kindergartens and schools provide a more uniform environment for kids.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Event Horizon on April 17th, 2018, 6:40 am 

Z

I am not advocating all teaching is down to the parents. It is a binary or even tertiary experience for *most* kids in *most* cases. You have the schools, you have the parents, and you have independent learning. It's a cumulative thing.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Zanthius on April 17th, 2018, 8:32 am 

BadgerJelly » April 16th, 2018, 8:42 pm wrote:I have not seen a single image you've presented that adds to anything you've said. It is merely visual repetition of the words you right - they don't expand the one-dimensional thought nor inspire to read more; more the opposite.


So what? Even if this was true (which it isn’t since I have included more data in several graphs), it doesn’t necessarily mean that your brain incorporates information in the same way from reading as from looking at a graph or illustration. When you see something as a graph or illustration, the geometric shapes are recognized by your visual cortex. It turns out that our primate brains have a particularly developed visual cortex, and that humans are especially good at dealing with complex visual information.

BadgerJelly » April 16th, 2018, 8:42 pm wrote:maybe there is more depth, but I've not seen much of it yet.


Since you are so concerned about depth, this can actually be related directly to depth. You see, the same concept or idea can be stored in the brain in many different ways. In general, the more neural connections you have to a concept or idea, the deeper you understand it. If I write something, and then create a visual repetition of what I wrote, it means that you get neural connections both from the text and from the illustration.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Event Horizon on April 17th, 2018, 9:39 am 

You make neural connections when you learn something new, not something that is not challenging or something you know anyway. I do not personally feel this thread is challenging, and thus your reasoning is faulty. If you are able to post comparative stats and research of a related nature you might be able to make a better case. I think this is what Badger is getting at, though it's not really for me to say.
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Re: Exams and tests are counterproductive

Postby Serpent on April 17th, 2018, 9:46 am 

To say that exams are bad or counterproductive is erroneous in my view. How the exams are conducted are probably the actual root of the problem as I understand it.

That's part of the problem. Maybe one-third.
Tests, particularly at the end of a module or term, indicate more than how well one student does compared to other students. They're also a good measure of how much of the material the students in general absorbed and whether they understand it well enough to apply to the next level. It's as much a measure of the curriculum and the teaching method as of student performance.
For example, if the average test result is below 60%, intensive review is called-for. If students generally do well on most of the paper, but have trouble with one aspect of the subject matter, some fundamental concept was missed, or needs clarification, before the class moves on. Tests reveal which students are struggling and need extra help, before they fall hopelessly behind. They also reveal to the teacher which ideas she has not conveyed successfully, and might try a different approach.
It's quite possible that those issues could be addressed without tests - if the classes were very small and every teacher had time to devote to every student. In large batches, some kind of sorting and quality control is necessary.
None of those are problems.

The problems arise when society makes everything competitive: only so many can be accepted to university; only so many in a profession, only so many jobs earn a living wage. That's fierce competition just to attain a reasonable standard of security and comfort - never mind ambition.
So parents worry that their children won't succeed and start pushing them early.
The public schools are under pressure to compete against private schools: their funding is made contingent on results, which means they pressure the teachers, who pressure the children. Everybody has to preform under severe external pressure.

If the schools, teachers and students got the support they need, testing would be - as you say - just routine.
Serpent
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