The purpose of life

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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 18th, 2012, 4:52 pm 

charon wrote:BadgerJelly

I suppose I am "fighting" to be me


In what sense? What exactly are you fighting? In what way are you fighting it?

There's another question too which is: is the fighter any different from the thing he is fighting?


I guess I'm surrendering to instinct. I'm letting my mind wander in a chaotic manner and then fighting back again. I think this is a human thing for everyone whether they know it or not completely.

For me personally (if that is what you are asking?) I guess its best to mention what a friend of mine kept saying. He described me as an anarchist (I disagreed) because I said balance is BS and robotic and that pushing into chaos is a good thing rather than being content and comfortable, and more over it makes me feel more human than human (Not wanting to steal words from White Zombie!). I think the best way to describe myself (If you care) is as a selfless narcissist with sadistic and manic tendencies who is pretty damn happy with his lot and wants to share the love he has for himself with others because he has come to see they are one and the same in his opinion.

Anyway that is why I believe what I believe about life and why I ask why. If you don't think there is a purpose to ask for a purpose and its not good to look for a better way then I'm fine with that but I strongly disagree ... maybe I'm wrong though?

Anyway I have tried my damn hardest to cling to the ethical aspect of this thread and stay on line with the OP. Wish you had PM's active so I didn't ramble on here so much. If asked I'll reply though the best way I can and hope something here is of use to someone for what ever reason they may have. I'm getting something out of it anyway :)

If you start up a thread somewhere let me know. I enjoy your questions and I enjoy hearing your responses to mine too.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 18th, 2012, 6:55 pm 

BadgerJelly

stay on line with the OP


You're right, we've wandered somewhat.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby neuro on April 19th, 2012, 9:58 am 

What about a psychanalitic answer to the OP?

The purpose of life is to exchange positive ghosts with people, i.e. to reciprocally build, in each-other's subconscious, inner phantasmatic objects which be positive, loving, generous, stable and reliable.
This helps to conslolidate everyone's identity and psychic structure, and to pursue rewarding, healthy, positive and valuable behavioral strategies and reciprocal relations.

How does it sound?

[ Not so easy, actually :°) ]
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 19th, 2012, 10:30 am 

neuro wrote:What about a psychanalitic answer to the OP?

The purpose of life is to exchange positive ghosts with people, i.e. to reciprocally build, in each-other's subconscious, inner phantasmatic objects which be positive, loving, generous, stable and reliable.
This helps to conslolidate everyone's identity and psychic structure, and to pursue rewarding, healthy, positive and valuable behavioral strategies and reciprocal relations.

How does it sound?

[ Not so easy, actually :°) ]


Doing it and loving it :)
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 19th, 2012, 6:05 pm 

Drifter wrote:To create purpose in a purposeless world is the purpose.


If you think its a purposeless why bother? ;)
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby Whut on April 19th, 2012, 7:22 pm 

neuro wrote:The purpose of life is to exchange positive ghosts with people


Something someone said, that will always stick with me: "everyone has good intentions"

...I cannot begin to stress the value I put in that utterance. "Religious value" would put it in context...

neuro wrote:How does it sound?

[ Not so easy, actually :°) ]


The "only" problem is, we have different understanding of (and subsequenty different ways of) achieving what it is what we all want.

It's not that easy, no. :)
Last edited by Whut on April 19th, 2012, 7:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby Whut on April 19th, 2012, 7:23 pm 

Drifter wrote:To create purpose in a purposeless world is the purpose.


So, what should we create? :)
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby sumonht1990 on April 20th, 2012, 8:39 am 

The purpose of my life is to establish the Islam.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 20th, 2012, 8:44 am 

sumonht1990 wrote:The purpose of my life is to establish the Islam.


Good luck with that! :S

It is such a shame how humanity manipulates people under the guise of "God".
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 20th, 2012, 11:38 pm 

BadgerJelly

What's the difference between humanity and people?

If you mean people manipulate people then we are fools!
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 20th, 2012, 11:39 pm 

sumonht1990 wrote:The purpose of my life is to establish the Islam.


Oh god, how boring.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 24th, 2012, 4:51 pm 

I have an answer and cannot see a fault in it yet and I like it.

The purpose of my life is self realisation.

Is this essentially true to everyone do you think?
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 24th, 2012, 7:12 pm 

BadgerJelly
The purpose of my life is self realisation


No, you read that in a book.

You see, you throw this stuff out like so many do. But what does it mean?
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 24th, 2012, 8:36 pm 

Which book did I read it in?

What do YOU think it means?
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 24th, 2012, 9:18 pm 

BadgerJelly

Which book did I read it in?


I don't know but you didn't invent the phrase 'self-realisation', did you? So you must have read about it. You might not have read it and only heard someone say it but I think that's unlikely.

What do YOU think it means?


It doesn't matter what I think but since you've decided that's your life's purpose (which I doubt) what does it mean to you?

To be quite honest I've no idea what it means. I don't know what the self is one is supposed to realise. Probably someone made it up.

If you mean the 'you' that gets up, does things, feels happy and sad, etc, then what is there to realise? You're already that, there's nothing to become.

In any case we're missing the point. Why do you want a purpose at all? That's the real question. Forget about realising some imaginary self, find out why you need a purpose.

Purposes separate, don't they? One person says they want to establish Islam, another says they want to realise a self, someone else has a different purpose, so off we go in different directions. Purposes never unite us, they divide and separate, they're destructive of relationship.

That's the problem, we're only concerned with our own fulfillment. Is that the way to live?

I doubt very much that you're really interested in self-realisation anyway. Thank God!
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 24th, 2012, 10:10 pm 

Let me put it like this.

Who are you? Why do you do what you do? Why do you say what you say? Why do you read what you read? Why do you think what you think? Why do you answer no to a question and they say you do not understand what it means?

I don't know but you didn't invent the phrase 'self-realisation', did you?


Actually I did. Obviously if you don't know what it means and my concept of it is different to yours (Of which you appear not to have one by your response) then it is my invention. Have I read these words before? Of course I have I learnt to speak them first long ago.

Why do you want a purpose at all?


I don't WANT it I have it. Don't you? If you think you don't then maybe why that is why you are struggling to understand the point of this entire conversation regarded ethically, and therefore from an individual human perspective in regards to the overall aspect of humanity and its condition in the frame of the condition we are in called life.

I am addressing the OP because I find it interesting to maybe uncover a common trait in the human condition to better my understanding of anthropology, history, biology, neurology, physics, chemistry, art etc.. (If you want to know why the answer is because it is my purpose not my choice. This is a personal thing though but still a human thing. I assume I am human after all ... maybe?)

The most obvious common path towards a purpose I see up to now is that none of us appear to want to be unhappy. I personally sometimes like to try and make myself unhappy but only to further understanding by experiencing the world through a different emotional state ... generally though the outcome is a happier state eventually.

I have taken this most common attribute and then though that people want to be happy and that happiness for ME comes through self realisation of my perceived condition as a human being. If you want to know what I mean when I say self realisation then ask yourself the questions I have posed above and then question any conclusions you come to and keep asking yourself more questions if you wish to understand me. If not don't.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 25th, 2012, 5:29 am 

Badger_Jelly

'you didn't invent the phrase 'self-realisation', did you?'

Actually I did.


Oh, I don't think so :)

http://tinyurl.com/c8467to
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby Eclogite on April 25th, 2012, 9:01 am 

BadgerJelly wrote:
I don't know but you didn't invent the phrase 'self-realisation', did you?


Actually I did.

Poppycock. The term, or its near identical sibling self actualization, have had currency for half a century. Hell, the US Army used the concept as its recruiting slogan from 1980 to 2001 - Be all you can be. Your posts make it clear that you are not unread, therefore you have almost certainly encountered this concept many times before.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby Paralith on April 25th, 2012, 12:14 pm 

neuro wrote:What about a psychanalitic answer to the OP?

The purpose of life is to exchange positive ghosts with people, i.e. to reciprocally build, in each-other's subconscious, inner phantasmatic objects which be positive, loving, generous, stable and reliable.
This helps to conslolidate everyone's identity and psychic structure, and to pursue rewarding, healthy, positive and valuable behavioral strategies and reciprocal relations.

How does it sound?

[ Not so easy, actually :°) ]


http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 25th, 2012, 5:39 pm 

Seriously guys if you are going to quote me then think about what I said in the entirety.

I explained why I did invent it with what I wrote and you have both decided to make your decision without taking into account what I wrote :

Actually I did. Obviously if you don't know what it means and my concept of it is different to yours (Of which you appear not to have one by your response) then it is my invention. Have I read these words before? Of course I have I learnt to speak them first long ago.


Meaning my brain had the concept just as it has a concept of hate, love, intelligence etc...

If you don't understand my question ask for an explanation.

@ Charon & Eclogite Are you both telling me you never try to question and understand yourself in anyway shape or form?


Let me put it like this again :

Who are you? Why do you do what you do? Why do you say what you say? Why do you read what you read? Why do you think what you think? Why do you answer no to a question and they say you do not understand what it means?

Last one was aimed at Charon as that is what he did. If you are going to reply to a statement try and understand the statement first because I am trying to explain it.

So my post was this

I have an answer and cannot see a fault in it yet and I like it.

The purpose of my life is self realisation.

Is this essentially true to everyone do you think?


I wasn't completely clear what I meant by "self realisation" but I hope it is clearer now?
Answer if you want or don't. What you cannot do it tell me what I mean and how I mean it. That is my job and I am trying my best.
If you think for a second I just read this in a book and thought it sounded nice so I decided to post it you are being presumptuous.

Think about this:

If I say the sun it hot would you say I just read it somewhere? Or could it possibly be a conclusion I have come to myself?

Anyway if you want to pick holes in this PM. The question is what I originally posted and hopefully it is clearer now. If not ignore it.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 25th, 2012, 7:41 pm 

BadgerJelly

I explained why I did invent it with what I wrote and you have both decided to make your decision without taking into account what I wrote


I knew what you were saying but I ignored it because it didn't make sense. It's not valid to escape from the level of reality into some idiosyncratic interpretation of your own. It's like saying unicorns exist just because we can think of them. It's not true. We can imagine them but they don't actually exist.

Why do you answer no to a question and then say you do not understand what it means?

Last one was aimed at Charon as that is what he did.



Actually I didn't if you look at it. I said I didn't know what "self realisation" meant. That's true. I don't know what this self is one is supposed to realise. Then I said 'If you mean... '. The answer therefore depended on what you meant, not what I meant.

I wasn't completely clear what I meant by "self realisation" but I hope it is clearer now



It's not really, is it? You haven't said what this self is. That's why I asked you about it.

What you cannot do is tell me what I mean and how I mean it


I didn't, I'm asking you.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 25th, 2012, 7:55 pm 

Paralith

Brene Brown


She does a good line in stand-up :)
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 25th, 2012, 11:14 pm 

Great link Paralith! Kind of delves into why I keep mentioning Communication in almost every thread I post in :)

I knew what you were saying but I ignored it because it didn't make sense.


This where you need self realisation. By SELF I mean you. As in know yourself and be willing to see beyond your personal beliefs. Question yourself.

PLEASE reread your on words and see if they make sense. Ignore me if you want to but stop ignoring yourself for your own benefit and therefore mine too.

I have lost count of the number of times you have contradicted yourself.

Maybe I sound like I am being "nasty" but I am not at all. I just asked a bunch of questions I feel to be beneficial to the discussion.

For me "self realisation" is about understanding myself and my condition in relation to what I believe and what I do not believe to be closest to the true ideal of me I think I am or can be. To be willing to admit my stupidity and ignorance so I can love more and enjoy more. To look fear in the face and realise there is not really anything to fear in the true sense of existence. That Death is no more scary than thinking about the time before I was born or when I was asleep.

I believe this is something everyone does to a degree but there are many walls to break down that have been put in place by social conditioning and expectations imbued by yourself/myself.

I do not expect you to understand what I mean because I am not the best communicator and realistically you can NEVER see things from my perspective without actually being me. I am just trying to get the gist across of what I believe like you are.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 26th, 2012, 8:49 am 

BadgerJelly

For me "self realisation" is about understanding myself and my condition in relation to what I believe and what I do not believe to be closest to the true ideal of me I think I am or can be. To be willing to admit my stupidity and ignorance so I can love more and enjoy more. To look fear in the face and realise there is not really anything to fear in the true sense of existence. That Death is no more scary than thinking about the time before I was born or when I was asleep.


Absolutely, that's how I'd describe it too. We're together on that.

The point is that when the 'spiritual people' talk about self realisation they don't mean that. They mean realising something called the Self (big S).

But there's also the question of whether there's a self at all. Buddhists, for example, don't agree with the idea of self realisation because for them there's no self in the first place.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on April 27th, 2012, 8:37 pm 

Are you Buddhist?

If not what do you think of my proposal? (excluding your definition of Buddhism)
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on April 27th, 2012, 8:49 pm 

BadgerJelly

No, I'm not a Buddhist or anything else.

What do you mean, what do I think of your proposal? I've already said I agreed with it. Self-knowing is essential. Without it there's only darkness and confusion.

I don't agree with using the term 'self-realisation' for self-knowledge though, it can be misunderstood. There's no self to realise, as I said before. You're already the self and it's that, yourself, which has to be understood - not 'realised', understood. The two are different.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby Eclogite on April 30th, 2012, 10:20 am 

Badger Jelly,
you made a claim that you had invented the term self-realisation. I believe I have adequately demonstrated that this concept has enjoyed currency for many decades and therefore it would be difficult for anyone doing even a smidgeon of reading in the fields of psychology, education, business, etc not to have run across it on multiple occassions.

I am not asserting that you read the term and started using it. I am asserting that it would have been all but impossible to avoid encountering the term en passant and absorbing the concept, which you then expressed in your own way. I am making no assumptions about your thinking, other than to assume you are a human who acts in human ways.

You seem to think, from your earlier remarks, that I do not believe in questioning oneself, or in strinving for what you call self-realization. I have no idea how you arrived at this bizarre interpretation of my position, but it is wrong.
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby BadgerJelly on May 1st, 2012, 10:24 pm 

My elusive point was that the concept of the phrase I have is unique to me. No one seems to agree what "self" is for starters. It was my bad communication nothing more.

You quoted me only in part which led me to believe you didn't really think about what I said. I better phrase would have been to say the purpose of my life is to be self conscious ... now we hit another problem of interpretation. Socially this is deemed to mean what could be the opposite of how I see it. For me self realisation is about conscious investigation of ourselves and our environments and how they both meld together.

My question was is this purpose I have the same as everyone else's?
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby charon on May 2nd, 2012, 4:04 am 

BadgerJelly

I'm glad you're back.

No one seems to agree what "self" is for starters


I wouldn't say that. By self we mean the you and me, the body and brain, memories, thoughts, feelings, and so on.

I understand what you meant by self-realisation. You meant that this self has to be understood, which I agree is essential.

the purpose of my life is to be self conscious


Again I know what you're saying. You don't mean self-conscious in the sense of feeling uncomfortable but to be fully aware, fully knowing.

My question was is this purpose I have the same as everyone else's?


I'd say yes, because if we're not so fully aware then we're not really 'there', we're not really living.

Now just a moment, let me pick at that a little. Don't take this as aggression or criticism, I'm just looking at it.

Is such awareness, knowing, or consciousness, a goal in itself or a constantly unfolding process? If we say the purpose of our lives is to become self-aware how do we know that?

You might say it's logical, that not to be so aware is to remain dull, confused, unenlightened, and I'd agree with that. But if we decide to make it our 'purpose' - as those so-called spiritual people do - then I think we're into something else.

What I'm saying is that people hear about these things and make conclusions about it. Having read some book or other they decide they now know what life's purpose is. Just as the Christians say that their purpose is to get near to God or get into heaven, and so on, so the other religions have their goals by various names - moksha, nirvana, etc.

Now is it the truth, as a natural fact independent of ourselves, that all life is moving toward a spiritual goal or is it only something we assume and accept? And which therefore becomes a matter of belief, propaganda, and illusion?
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Re: The purpose of life

Postby neuro on May 2nd, 2012, 12:28 pm 

charon wrote:Now is it the truth, as a natural fact independent of ourselves, that all life is moving toward a spiritual goal or is it only something we assume and accept? And which therefore becomes a matter of belief, propaganda, and illusion?


My suggestion is that all life is not moving toward any spiritual goal, bust simply toward life itself.

Curiously enough, this is generally obtained through mechanisms (reflexes, instincts, learned reactions, behaviors which have produced pleasure or discomfort/pain) that act as motivational drives in regulating affections, thought and behavior. And even more curiously, in humans most of these motivational drives are complex, indirect, abstract and often spiritual.

Spirituality is a means to live happy, a path for better human life, rather than life being moving toward any spiritual goal.
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