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alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 12:10 am wrote:Then by transplanting them inside another brain wouldn't you wake up in another person's body and have their thoughts, personality, sexuality etc ?
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alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 12:43 am wrote:I mea the neurons that are responsible for me being awake \. Nothing else
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dlorde » September 24th, 2014, 6:59 pm wrote:alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 12:43 am wrote:I mea the neurons that are responsible for me being awake \. Nothing else
There are special neurons that control whether you're awake or not, but they work pretty much like a light switch (simplifying a bit). If you transplanted them into someone else and hooked them up properly, they'd have two sets of switches to wake them up and you'd have none - you'd be permanently asleep. Nothing else would be different.
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Paradox » September 24th, 2014, 8:45 pm wrote:The threads question is easy to answer without discussion....YES
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dlorde » September 24th, 2014, 6:33 pm wrote:alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 12:10 am wrote:Then by transplanting them inside another brain wouldn't you wake up in another person's body and have their thoughts, personality, sexuality etc ?
Which neurons are you considering? 'you' are the combined functions of billions of neurons spread across your brain.
When your next door neighbor wakes up in the morning, he's (from your perspective) already waking up in another person's body, and having their thoughts, personality, sexuality etc. That's him, not you. You're you because you have your body, thoughts, personality, sexuality etc. If you had his, you'd be him.
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alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 1:22 am wrote:So will being able to transplant your consciousness ever be possible ?
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alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 1:24 am wrote:Also what would happen if that person didnt have those neurons but you transplanted yours ?
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alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 2:11 am wrote:So If a person is brain dead and my nerouns are transplanted woudn't I awake ?
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alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 4:04 am wrote:So do you mean I would be awake but it wouldnt be me like my personality ?
What makes me me ?
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dlorde » September 25th, 2014, 6:27 am wrote:alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 1:22 am wrote:So will being able to transplant your consciousness ever be possible ?
Depends exactly what you mean. You could, in theory, transplant your head onto another body, or even transplant your brain into another skull (replacing the previous occupant). This would require major breakthroughs in nerve regeneration, immunosuppression - and ethics.
In theory, if you could map every neuron and its connections, you could emulate an individual artificially in an artificial (electronic) neural network, but this would be an identical copy of you, i.e. another person just like you. This emulation would think it was you, but wouldn't be the original you. Does that matter?
Problems with what identity means start to arise when you consider things like the Star Trek transporter, which destructively scans you and recreates an identical copy at the destination. Is the copy you, or did you die and leave a copy that thinks it's you? Does it matter? Are you the same person who went to sleep last night? How could you tell if you were a copy and the previous you had been destroyed overnight? what if the scan is not destructive, so you end up with the original you and an identical copy?
I think it's a more interesting way to explore our feelings and beliefs about identity than the traditional Lincoln's Axe or Ship of Theseus puzzles (if you replace all the individual elements of something like a ship or an axe, one by one, is it still the same ship or axe?).
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dlorde » September 25th, 2014, 6:27 am wrote:alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 1:22 am wrote:So will being able to transplant your consciousness ever be possible ?
Depends exactly what you mean. You could, in theory, transplant your head onto another body, or even transplant your brain into another skull (replacing the previous occupant). This would require major breakthroughs in nerve regeneration, immunosuppression - and ethics.
In theory, if you could map every neuron and its connections, you could emulate an individual artificially in an artificial (electronic) neural network, but this would be an identical copy of you, i.e. another person just like you. This emulation would think it was you, but wouldn't be the original you. Does that matter?
Problems with what identity means start to arise when you consider things like the Star Trek transporter, which destructively scans you and recreates an identical copy at the destination. Is the copy you, or did you die and leave a copy that thinks it's you? Does it matter? Are you the same person who went to sleep last night? How could you tell if you were a copy and the previous you had been destroyed overnight? what if the scan is not destructive, so you end up with the original you and an identical copy?
I think it's a more interesting way to explore our feelings and beliefs about identity than the traditional Lincoln's Axe or Ship of Theseus puzzles (if you replace all the individual elements of something like a ship or an axe, one by one, is it still the same ship or axe?).
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dlorde » September 25th, 2014, 6:27 am wrote:alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 1:22 am wrote:So will being able to transplant your consciousness ever be possible ?
Depends exactly what you mean. You could, in theory, transplant your head onto another body, or even transplant your brain into another skull (replacing the previous occupant). This would require major breakthroughs in nerve regeneration, immunosuppression - and ethics.
In theory, if you could map every neuron and its connections, you could emulate an individual artificially in an artificial (electronic) neural network, but this would be an identical copy of you, i.e. another person just like you. This emulation would think it was you, but wouldn't be the original you. Does that matter?
Problems with what identity means start to arise when you consider things like the Star Trek transporter, which destructively scans you and recreates an identical copy at the destination. Is the copy you, or did you die and leave a copy that thinks it's you? Does it matter? Are you the same person who went to sleep last night? How could you tell if you were a copy and the previous you had been destroyed overnight? what if the scan is not destructive, so you end up with the original you and an identical copy?
I think it's a more interesting way to explore our feelings and beliefs about identity than the traditional Lincoln's Axe or Ship of Theseus puzzles (if you replace all the individual elements of something like a ship or an axe, one by one, is it still the same ship or axe?).
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neuro » September 25th, 2014, 10:55 am wrote:Consciousness is a function of neurons.
Yes.
In a sense.
Only in a sense.
It is a function of a sufficiently complex network of neurons + a sufficiently complex source of information (reality and body) + a sufficiently malleable set of mechanisms of plasticity and changes in neuronal functionality, connectivity and synaptic efficacy.
Thus, consciousness would be ALTERED by any manipulation of neurons, groups of neurons, connections among neurons and with body organs, plasticity mechanisms and so on.
In order to "transfer" your consciousness into another body you should be able to reproduce exactly, in such body, the same molecular conditions of most cells (not only neurons) and exactly the same neuronal connections, each of them with the same strength, each neuron having exactly the same functional and biochemical situation.
The point is:
once you have replicated all this, this body will be identical to yours and will possess a consciousness identical to yours, so...
what the hell remains to be transfered?
You can keep your consciousness for yourself: the other guy already has one, identical to yours.
It is two of you.
and in less than 1 second you'll be two different people, beacause each - even slightly - different experience will - from now on - introduce differences in your consciousness, your memories, your emotions...
In other words:
WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE whatever you asked and you may think of asking?
In principle, it is theoretically possible to reproduce exactly your consciousness elsewhere (and you do not need to transplant anything: you get two of you who start to live two different lives from now on).
In principle, it is theoretically possible to reproduce or transplant any "part" of your consciousness, but such "part" will be profoundly changed in the host (receiving) organism.
No part of consciousness is a standalone module.
Consciousness is a process, an interaction among quite complex modules, interconnected and interdependent, continually evolving.
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neuro » September 25th, 2014, 10:55 am wrote:Consciousness is a function of neurons.
Yes.
In a sense.
Only in a sense.
It is a function of a sufficiently complex network of neurons + a sufficiently complex source of information (reality and body) + a sufficiently malleable set of mechanisms of plasticity and changes in neuronal functionality, connectivity and synaptic efficacy.
Thus, consciousness would be ALTERED by any manipulation of neurons, groups of neurons, connections among neurons and with body organs, plasticity mechanisms and so on.
In order to "transfer" your consciousness into another body you should be able to reproduce exactly, in such body, the same molecular conditions of most cells (not only neurons) and exactly the same neuronal connections, each of them with the same strength, each neuron having exactly the same functional and biochemical situation.
The point is:
once you have replicated all this, this body will be identical to yours and will possess a consciousness identical to yours, so...
what the hell remains to be transfered?
You can keep your consciousness for yourself: the other guy already has one, identical to yours.
It is two of you.
and in less than 1 second you'll be two different people, beacause each - even slightly - different experience will - from now on - introduce differences in your consciousness, your memories, your emotions...
In other words:
WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE whatever you asked and you may think of asking?
In principle, it is theoretically possible to reproduce exactly your consciousness elsewhere (and you do not need to transplant anything: you get two of you who start to live two different lives from now on).
In principle, it is theoretically possible to reproduce or transplant any "part" of your consciousness, but such "part" will be profoundly changed in the host (receiving) organism.
No part of consciousness is a standalone module.
Consciousness is a process, an interaction among quite complex modules, interconnected and interdependent, continually evolving.
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dlorde » September 24th, 2014, 6:33 pm wrote:alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 12:10 am wrote:Then by transplanting them inside another brain wouldn't you wake up in another person's body and have their thoughts, personality, sexuality etc ?
Which neurons are you considering? 'you' are the combined functions of billions of neurons spread across your brain.
When your next door neighbor wakes up in the morning, he's (from your perspective) already waking up in another person's body, and having their thoughts, personality, sexuality etc. That's him, not you. You're you because you have your body, thoughts, personality, sexuality etc. If you had his, you'd be him.
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alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 5:22 pm wrote:Would having another person's body, thoughts, personality, sexuality be possible ?
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Braininvat » September 25th, 2014, 11:34 am wrote:You persist in asking the same question, in a way which suggests your are not reading the replies to your OP. If you have read them, you may have gleaned that you could have someone else's body (SEE MY POSTING ABOVE), very hypothetically, but it you "have" someone else's personality and thoughts and memories, then you are in fact someone else and not you.
I'm not sure how our answers are not helping you refine your question, or revise it.
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alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 5:39 pm wrote:Braininvat » September 25th, 2014, 11:34 am wrote:You persist in asking the same question, in a way which suggests your are not reading the replies to your OP. If you have read them, you may have gleaned that you could have someone else's body (SEE MY POSTING ABOVE), very hypothetically, but it you "have" someone else's personality and thoughts and memories, then you are in fact someone else and not you.
I'm not sure how our answers are not helping you refine your question, or revise it.
I know. I mean how would this be achieved is what I'm asking
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dlorde » September 25th, 2014, 5:44 pm wrote:alternativename » September 25th, 2014, 5:39 pm wrote:Braininvat » September 25th, 2014, 11:34 am wrote:You persist in asking the same question, in a way which suggests your are not reading the replies to your OP. If you have read them, you may have gleaned that you could have someone else's body (SEE MY POSTING ABOVE), very hypothetically, but it you "have" someone else's personality and thoughts and memories, then you are in fact someone else and not you.
I'm not sure how our answers are not helping you refine your question, or revise it.
I know. I mean how would this be achieved is what I'm asking
>facepalm<
You need to spend a little more time thinking about what you're asking.
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Paradox » September 25th, 2014, 7:25 pm wrote:Hmm...That is surely interesting. Someone comes here with super far fetched ideas, however still gets an audience responding to it. For fun?
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alternativename » September 26th, 2014, 4:04 am wrote:Well i've been trying to do research which is why I was wondering. What chose me to be me ? Could by scientific and technological means could I be someone else ?
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