To the Youth in Europe and North America

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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby SciameriKen on February 8th, 2015, 10:40 am 

Hendrick Laursen » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:34 am wrote:'Twas Jan the 21st when this message was originally published.

FROM: Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, the Leader of Iran
TO: the Youth in Europe and N America

[Quoted from http://farsi.khamenei.ir/ndata/news/28731/index.html#en]
In the name of God, the Beneficent the Merciful
To the Youth in Europe and North America,

The recent events in France and similar ones in some other Western countries have convinced me to directly talk to you about them. I am addressing you, [the youth], not because I overlook your parents, rather it is because the future of your nations and countries will be in your hands; and also I find that the sense of quest for truth is more vigorous and attentive in your hearts.

I don’t address your politicians and statesmen either in this writing because I believe that they have consciously separated the route of politics from the path of righteousness and truth.

I would like to talk to you about Islam, particularly the image that is presented to you as Islam. Many attempts have been made over the past two decades, almost since the disintegration of the Soviet Union,

... BLAH BLAH BLAH...

this current interaction between Islam and the West with a clearer conscience and lesser resentment.

Seyyed Ali Khamenei
21st Jan. 2015




I just don't get how this guy has the audacity to attempt to fix the "world" when such egregious problems exist in his own country, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... ic_of_Iran

Somebody needs to write a response to him that says, "Fix your own problems.... Ass"
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby mayflow on February 8th, 2015, 10:52 am 

People who terrorize and kill and maim and torture are dumb to the max, but this letter seemed to be about peace and acceptance - how do you call someone an ass for that?
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby vivian maxine on February 8th, 2015, 11:03 am 

mayflow » February 8th, 2015, 9:33 am wrote:Viviane Maxine, I appreciate your response. I don't think I should go to much into Buddhist thinking processes unless it is ok by the original poster who was speaking of who was speaking of the Muslim type of belief system.

As I understand it, the Muslim belief system as many have developed from Christianity, which developed from a revision of the Judism old testament eye for an eye philosophy which Jesus Christ they say reformed into a (new testament) "turn the other cheek type of outlook". I don't know how the prophet Mohammed perpetuated that.

If the op or others better versed in the Islamic would like to speak of this, I would be interested.


Right. It is a different topic entirely. I forget now what was said that caused my reaction. Perhaps just the feeling that we were once again using religion to explain our meanness toward each other. Back to Hendrick's OP.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Hendrick Laursen on February 8th, 2015, 11:28 am 

SciameriKen » February 8th, 2015, 4:40 am wrote:
Hendrick Laursen » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:34 am wrote:'Twas Jan the 21st when this message was originally published.

FROM: Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, the Leader of Iran
TO: the Youth in Europe and N America

[Quoted from http://farsi.khamenei.ir/ndata/news/28731/index.html#en]
In the name of God, the Beneficent the Merciful
To the Youth in Europe and North America,

The recent events in France and similar ones in some other Western countries have convinced me to directly talk to you about them. I am addressing you, [the youth], not because I overlook your parents, rather it is because the future of your nations and countries will be in your hands; and also I find that the sense of quest for truth is more vigorous and attentive in your hearts.

I don’t address your politicians and statesmen either in this writing because I believe that they have consciously separated the route of politics from the path of righteousness and truth.

I would like to talk to you about Islam, particularly the image that is presented to you as Islam. Many attempts have been made over the past two decades, almost since the disintegration of the Soviet Union,

... BLAH BLAH BLAH...

this current interaction between Islam and the West with a clearer conscience and lesser resentment.

Seyyed Ali Khamenei
21st Jan. 2015




I just don't get how this guy has the audacity to attempt to fix the "world" when such egregious problems exist in his own country, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... ic_of_Iran

Somebody needs to write a response to him that says, "Fix your own problems.... Ass"


Sorry SCAM, not a fine point.

We, as human beings, all have the hope to reach, after all, a world full of peace and love and brotherhood. No, it's not enmity we'd wish for nor hatred we'd wish to grow. Ultimate Peace. Utopia.

But, this letter originally asks it's audience not to surrender to the Media's version of Islam.
It ask s to make a reasonable, and correct understanding of Islam, and to RESPECT it.

But, I ask you, is the picture of Islam, presented to you by Western Media, a correct one?
Is Islam the motherland of terrorists?
Is Qur'an a bloodshed tale?

MALCOLM
You think you are Christians, and yet you see
your so-called white Christian brother hanging
black Christians on trees. You say that white
man loves you and yet he has done every evil
act against you. He has everything while he is
living and tells you to be a good slave and
when you die you will have more than he has in
Beulah's land. We so-called Negroes are in
pitiful shape. Get off your knees praying to
a picture of a white, pale blond, and blue-eyed
Jesus. Come out of the sky. Build heaven on
earth. Islam is the black man's true religion.

Movie Script of Malcolm X, 1992, p 129.


How many movies do we have out there like Malcolm X's?
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby mayflow on February 8th, 2015, 11:56 am 

Yeah, well... The Dalai Lama spreads love, Jesus spread love, some people in Islam do as well, ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? PS malcom seemed angry and racist.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Hendrick Laursen on February 8th, 2015, 2:00 pm 

Well,

I chose Malcolm deliberately.

It is his high angry tone astonishing a world, calling for "equality".
Yes, indeed angry he is, but I don't find Malcolm racist. He doesn't know a priority of "Black" people over the "White". He just wanted the Blacks to be "niggers" no more. Is it Racism?

mayflow wrote:ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

I'm a Muslim.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby mayflow on February 8th, 2015, 2:34 pm 

Hendrick Laursen » February 8th, 2015, 1:00 pm wrote:Well,

I chose Malcolm deliberately.

It is his high angry tone astonishing a world, calling for "equality".
Yes, indeed angry he is, but I don't find Malcolm racist. He doesn't know a priority of "Black" people over the "White". He just wanted the Blacks to be "niggers" no more. Is it Racism?

mayflow wrote:ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

I'm a Muslim.


But... are like Rumi, or others who speak of love or are you one who speaks of anger and hatred, and yes I think Malcolm was racist and an angry person. Anger is not to me justfiable for anyone, much less a minister.
https://janebooth.files.wordpress.com/2 ... moment.jpg
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby SciameriKen on February 8th, 2015, 3:29 pm 

Hendrick Laursen » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:28 pm wrote:Sorry SCAM, not a fine point.

We, as human beings, all have the hope to reach, after all, a world full of peace and love and brotherhood. No, it's not enmity we'd wish for nor hatred we'd wish to grow. Ultimate Peace. Utopia.

But, this letter originally asks it's audience not to surrender to the Media's version of Islam.
It ask s to make a reasonable, and correct understanding of Islam, and to RESPECT it.

But, I ask you, is the picture of Islam, presented to you by Western Media, a correct one?
Is Islam the motherland of terrorists?
Is Qur'an a bloodshed tale?


How many movies do we have out there like Malcolm X's?



Both you and May are looking at the content of the letter - what I am saying is this man is not worthy to write a letter like this. How can I read anything he writes when he puts a woman to death because she defends herself from rape? Ultimate Peace, Utopia, does not start unless you respect each person and their pursuit of happiness even if that pursuit goes against what is written in a holy book somewhere.

BTW, very clever calling me SCAM I guess --
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Hendrick Laursen on February 8th, 2015, 3:52 pm 

Hmm,
I think the content or "what is said" is of more importance than "who" speaks.
Many wise words may come out of some fool's mouth.
Hitler who is supposed devilish by many in the World has some really thoughtful quotes.
See?


May,
I can tell I prefer love to hate. I'll love as much as I can.
Who could love people committing Genocide for example?
Love and Hate are sides of the same coin.
If Nations weren't angered at "Germany" WWII would have had other endings.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Hendrick Laursen on February 8th, 2015, 4:06 pm 

mayflow » February 8th, 2015, 4:33 am wrote:Viviane Maxine, I appreciate your response. I don't think I should go to much into Buddhist thinking processes unless it is ok by the original poster who was speaking of who was speaking of the Muslim type of belief system.

As I understand it, the Muslim belief system as many have developed from Christianity, which developed from a revision of the Judism old testament eye for an eye philosophy which Jesus Christ they say reformed into a (new testament) "turn the other cheek type of outlook". I don't know how the prophet Mohammed perpetuated that.

If the op or others better versed in the Islamic would like to speak of this, I would be interested.


The Islamic Thought has four foundations.(These may differ a bit in various schools of Islamic Thought)
I. Quran - The Holy book revealed to Muhammad
II. Suunah - The acts and the words of Muhammad
III. Ijma' (Consensus)
IV. Aql (Intellect)
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby mayflow on February 8th, 2015, 4:18 pm 

People were not angered at Germany or Japan or Italy, they were defending themselves against their horrors. The same holds true to the nowday terrorist gangs. The defenders always win in the end. Look at how the Super bowl ended with the intercecption. The terrorists are terrible for the 9/11 and the attacks against Japan and France and Jordan and they will lose. Not good Muslims, just the terrorists. Those terrorists have been many times as cruel to their other Muslim "brethren" than they have to those in the west, and this will not end well for them. The war is against terrorism now, certainly not against peace loving Muslims.
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Re: Ayatollah Khamenei in his letter to the Western youth st

Postby Lomax on February 8th, 2015, 8:44 pm 

Ansaralmahdi » February 7th, 2015, 2:21 pm wrote:Don't you accept it aren't you agree with his statement that:


Ayatollah Khamenei in his letter to the Western youth stated that: "I don’t insist that you accept my reading or any other reading of Islam. What I want to say is: Don’t allow this dynamic and effective reality in today’s world to be introduced to you through resentments and prejudices. Don’t allow them to hypocritically introduce their own recruited terrorists as representatives of Islam"


And why would they need to when our thread's ambassador of tolerance himself calls for the death of Salman Rushdie? I think Khameini should be one of the last people to tell us who does or doesn't represent Islam; and I'd be a little more reticent to lecture people about the "path of righteousness" if I were him.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby doogles on February 9th, 2015, 6:10 am 

I feel obliged to once again state my position, relative to my own views on this thread. I am Atheist with a capital ‘A’. I can observe religiously different viewpoints from the position of an independent person sitting on the fence. I agree that Buddhism and Jainism, particularly Jainism are pacifist ‘religions’ or ‘worldviews’ or ‘principles of reverence for life’, the latter being a worldview of Albert Schweitzer.

The reality of interpersonal, intergroup and international relationships on this planet, are another matter. Every day we receive media reports of intentional killings at interpersonal, religious and intra- and inter-national, levels.

Such reports involving Muslims, particularly against other Muslims, is way out of proportion. My conclusion once again, is that Muslims are incapable of solving any perceived (and I emphasise ‘perceived’) problems involving themselves except by violence.

I re-read the Ayatollah’s letter. I’m concerned that others like my own grandchildren here in Australia may read such propaganda directed at the youth in Europe and North America. His letter contains no apologies, regrets or justifications for the multitudes of acts of indiscriminate murder of innocent men, women and children as a result of terrorist activities in the name of Islam over the last 40 or more years. I’m concerned because he has addressed his letter to the most impressionable groups within our cultures, our adolescents, and that he has taken the line of “We are the most misunderstood people on the planet. Our religion is a religion of peace.” (My personal interpretation).

Why didn’t the Ayatollah point out that they have killed 11 million of their own since 1948 and that they are continuing to do so every day with explosive devices within their own countries?

You’ll note that I have not yet addressed his actual letter paragraph by paragraph. I have not yet cited the paragraphs in the Koran that ordain that women are second class beings (Sharia Law is based on these Islamic teachings), nor on the many sections in the Koran that incite members to violence as a way of solving problems.

I’ve so far only addressed the way they grossly ignore their own Koranic advice to live in harmony with one another. And I’ve suggested that the Ayatollahs should be first addressing the youth of their own religion before they address the likes of my own grandchildren.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Hendrick Laursen on February 9th, 2015, 10:05 am 

Well, regarding your note doogles,

I think, the faults of Muslims, isn't a good reason to devalue Islam.

Now, in the epoch of the IT era so far, any one is just a few clicks away from Quran, and reading so, will reveal that not many of the "supposed" Muslim groups are virtually Islamic.

I think if the real hidden point in the Ayatollah's letter is:
doogles wrote:“We are the most misunderstood people on the planet. Our religion is a religion of peace.” (

as doogles writes, it's indeed a correct one.

Anyway, I made another topic on Human rights in Quran
Interested ones are welcome.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Ansaralmahdi on February 9th, 2015, 1:28 pm 

Hendrick Laursen » January 26th, 2015, 12:34 am wrote:'Twas Jan the 21st when this message was originally published.

FROM: Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, the Leader of Iran
TO: the Youth in Europe and N America

[Quoted from http://farsi.khamenei.ir/ndata/news/28731/index.html#en]
In the name of God, the Beneficent the Merciful
To the Youth in Europe and North America,

The recent events in France and similar ones in some other Western countries have convinced me to directly talk to you about them. I am addressing you, [the youth], not because I overlook your parents, rather it is because the future of your nations and countries will be in your hands; and also I find that the sense of quest for truth is more vigorous and attentive in your hearts.

I don’t address your politicians and statesmen either in this writing because I believe that they have consciously separated the route of politics from the path of righteousness and truth.

I would like to talk to you about Islam, particularly the image that is presented to you as Islam. Many attempts have been made over the past two decades, almost since the disintegration of the Soviet Union, to place this great religion in the seat of a horrifying enemy. The provocation of a feeling of horror and hatred and its utilization has unfortunately a long record in the political history of the West.

Here, I don’t want to deal with the different phobias with which the Western nations have thus far been indoctrinated. A cursory review of recent critical studies of history would bring home to you the fact that the Western governments’ insincere and hypocritical treatment of other nations and cultures has been censured in new historiographies.

The histories of the United States and Europe are ashamed of slavery, embarrassed by the colonial period and chagrined at the oppression of people of color and non-Christians. Your researchers and historians are deeply ashamed of the bloodsheds wrought in the name of religion between the Catholics and Protestants or in the name of nationality and ethnicity during the First and Second World Wars. This approach is admirable.

By mentioning a fraction of this long list, I don’t want to reproach history; rather I would like you to ask your intellectuals as to why the public conscience in the West awakens and comes to its senses after a delay of several decades or centuries. Why should the revision of collective conscience apply to the distant past and not to the current problems? Why is it that attempts are made to prevent public awareness regarding an important issue such as the treatment of Islamic culture and thought?

You know well that humiliation and spreading hatred and illusionary fear of the “other” have been the common base of all those oppressive profiteers. Now, I would like you to ask yourself why the old policy of spreading “phobia” and hatred has targeted Islam and Muslims with an unprecedented intensity. Why does the power structure in the world want Islamic thought to be marginalized and remain latent? What concepts and values in Islam disturb the programs of the super powers and what interests are safeguarded in the shadow of distorting the image of Islam? Hence, my first request is: Study and research the incentives behind this widespread tarnishing of the image of Islam.

My second request is that in reaction to the flood of prejudgments and disinformation campaigns, try to gain a direct and firsthand knowledge of this religion. The right logic requires that you understand the nature and essence of what they are frightening you about and want you to keep away from.

I don’t insist that you accept my reading or any other reading of Islam. What I want to say is: Don’t allow this dynamic and effective reality in today’s world to be introduced to you through resentments and prejudices. Don’t allow them to hypocritically introduce their own recruited terrorists as representatives of Islam.

Receive knowledge of Islam from its primary and original sources. Gain information about Islam through the Qur’an and the life of its great Prophet. I would like to ask you whether you have directly read the Qur’an of the Muslims. Have you studied the teachings of the Prophet of Islam and his humane, ethical doctrines? Have you ever received the message of Islam from any sources other than the media?

Have you ever asked yourself how and on the basis of which values has Islam established the greatest scientific and intellectual civilization of the world and raised the most distinguished scientists and intellectuals throughout several centuries?

I would like you not to allow the derogatory and offensive image-buildings to create an emotional gulf between you and the reality, taking away the possibility of an impartial judgment from you. Today, the communication media have removed the geographical borders. Hence, don’t allow them to besiege you within fabricated and mental borders.

Although no one can individually fill the created gaps, each one of you can construct a bridge of thought and fairness over the gaps to illuminate yourself and your surrounding environment. While this preplanned challenge between Islam and you, the youth, is undesirable, it can raise new questions in your curious and inquiring minds. Attempts to find answers to these questions will provide you with an appropriate opportunity to discover new truths.

Therefore, don’t miss the opportunity to gain proper, correct and unbiased understanding of Islam so that hopefully, due to your sense of responsibility toward the truth, future generations would write the history of this current interaction between Islam and the West with a clearer conscience and lesser resentment.

Seyyed Ali Khamenei
21st Jan. 2015
Last edited by mtbturtle on February 9th, 2015, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: doc attachment removed
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby doogles on February 10th, 2015, 6:27 am 

I apologise in advance to you Hendrick for what I am about to post. I’ve formed a high regard for you on this forum over the last few months and I would not like that to change. You advised people like me to use IT to study the Koran. I’ve read the Koran seriously, noted many aspects of it, and I have seen advice from Allah that I do not believe is what would emanate from a ‘kind and merciful’ God.

To my mind, there is either a serious flaw in Islam itself, or else the pacifist majority of Muslims are totally irrelevant in controlling that minority of persons who are committing daily violence over our planet daily ‘in the name of ISLAM’.

Something is wrong!

Ayatollahs can proclaim “We are the most misunderstood people on the planet. Our religion is a religion of peace” forever, but it will not change the facts that Muslim-associated or Muslim-self-proclaimed groups are associated with violence DAILY.

This sitehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o ... ents,_2015 simply and objectively reports violent incidents during January on our planet. I hope it copies into the forum. I se that it's near-enough for any intelligent person to get the message

January[edit]
Date Type Dead Injured Location Details Perpetrator State Non-
state
1 Suicide bombing 1 8 Gombe, Nigeria
A suicide bomber on a motorcycle drove up to the gates of a Christian church in the north-eastern city of Gombe and detonated his explosive belt while worshippers were inside at a New Years mass. Luckily, only the suicide bomber was killed in the explosion while eight people were taken to hospital with a varying degree of injuries.[1]
Boko Haram

2 Attack on a bus 15 10 Waza Region, Cameroon
A group of Boko Haram militants attacked a bus killing 15 people and injuring 10.[2]
Boko Haram

2 Mass kidnapping
0 40 kidnapped Malari, Nigeria
A group of Boko Haram militants came into the town of Malari, Nigeria and called people out of their homes to listen to a sermon. They then preceded to select boys and young men from the group of people and kidnapped them.[3]
Boko Haram

3 Attack on military bases 1 3 Maguindanao and Sultan Kudarat, Philippines
An undetermined number of Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters (BIFF) insurgents launched simultaneous attacks on two military attachments; at the Kulasi detachment in Barangay Kulasi in General Salipada K. Pendatun, Maguindanao and at Sitio Sumilalao in Barangay Katiku of President Quirino, Sultan Kudarat at 1 am local time. Military forces opened fire at the attacking insurgents and the clashes lasted about an hour. One soldier was killed and three were wounded from the Katiku detachment.[4]
Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters

3 Knife attack 1 0 El Fahs, Tunisia
A Tunisian policeman was ambushed by a group of Islamist militants and abducted, they then killed him by cutting his throat and stabbing his heart. Nine people have been arrested in connection to the attack.[5]
Islamist militants
3 - 7 2015 Baga massacre
100 - 2000 Unknown Baga, Borno State, Nigeria
Boko Haram militants opened fire on northern Nigerian villages, leaving bodies scattered everywhere, reporting over 100 fatalities with as many as 2,000 people unaccounted for—feared dead.[6]
Boko Haram

4 Roadside bombing 0 6 Gao Region, Mali
A roadside bomb exploded next to a United Nations convoy of Niger troops in Gao region between the northern communities of Asongo and Meneka injuring six U.N soldiers, three seriously.[7]
Unknown
4 Bombing 4 8 Orakzai Agency, Pakistan
While Shiite men were playing a game of volleyball in the Orakzai tribal district of the Pakistani north-west, a bomb dug into the ground near the playing field detonated killing four civilians and injuring eight others, two critically.[8]
Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan or al-Qaeda linked groups suspected

I do not know if this copy and paste will upload into the Forum, but just in case it does not, it gives factual details about violent incidents that occurred on our planet during the first four days of January this year. Essentially 6 out of 7 events of violence on our planet in the first 4 days this year were associated with people proclaiming Islamic association. Every daily report before and after this goes on in the same vein.

As I said earlier Hendrick, I respect your contributions so far in this forum, but I see things as a ‘fence-sitter’.

I know the usual Islamic answers that the people involved in incidents such as the above are not true Muslims, and that “We are the most misunderstood people on the planet. Our religion is a religion of peace.”

There has to be a limit to the extent that responsible people can go on giving the same old excuses.

Forget all of those nice pieces of advice in the Koran on how to live and behave in a civilised manner. They exist and they are real. But I've produced evidence in my first post that far too many Muslims take no notice of them and I have to ask “What are the true peaceful Muslims such as you doing about these violent people who are masquerading as Muslims?”

I repeat "What are the irrelevant majority of peaceful Muslims doing about this daily problem on our planet?". Please tell me that Muslims are addressing this real problem of violence and not just sending letters to the youth of Europe and North American when their own rank and file need such urgent counselling.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Hendrick Laursen on February 10th, 2015, 12:26 pm 

Hi doogles,

There is no need to apologize, as long as you know that you're telling the right thing. And it seems you're right now.

Something is wrong. Indeed, it is.

We, as Muslims, have one very important problem, which is, our lives aren't based virtually on Quran. The real reason we can't cure it is, we don't confess that we're erring.

I can find nothing wrong with Quran.
I can find nothing wrong with Muhammad.
But, there are problems with Muslims. We aren't what we are supposed to be.

Muhammad (pbuh) said: "Good be the person, that curing his own faults prevents him from finding faults in others."
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Ansaralmahdi on February 13th, 2015, 4:44 pm 

Hendrick Laursen » February 1st, 2015, 3:21 pm wrote:
doogles » January 31st, 2015, 2:34 pm wrote:One example – 49:10 states “The believers are a band of brothers. Make peace among your brothers and fear God ... “ Now when I read that 11,000,000 Muslims have been killed by fellow Muslims since 1948, and when I read almost every day about Muslims killing other Muslims by detonating bombs in Mosques and other crowded places, in predominantly Muslim States throughout the world, I can only repeat that they appear to be unable to settle perceived differences with others, even those of their own faith, than by VIOLENCE.

To repeat what I said in an earlier post, I believe Ayatollahs would be better served by sending messages of tolerance of Islam to the Muslim youth of the world, rather than the youth of Europe and North America.

There’s an old saying that ‘Charity begins at home’. I believe that anybody encouraging tolerance in others of a different faith should first educate their own to be tolerant. Too many Muslims (The death figures are there) do not seem to know the meaning of the word, in contradiction to what it sggests on those three posters .


Hi doogles,

There is nothing I can present you as a "why" to all this bloodshed among Muslims. Just nothing.
Islam began as "one" religion and just one. After Muhammad's death, only one day after him,
the first fractionalism started, whether "Abu Bakr" or "Ali" were to succeed Muhammad.

The first Islamic Civil War started during the caliphate of Ali, [36 A.H.] causing 4,000 to be killed and many injured.

And since then, started the bloodshed among Muslims. Today thousands of sects regard themselves "Muslims" and it's so sad to know most of these excommunicate other sects from Islam.

Yes, I totally surrender to the "charity at Home" practice.

Now, some of Muslims claim Terrorist groups regarding themselves as Muslims are originally American or West-Funded. It could be true to some degrees, as is for ISIL; but it's not a satisfying answer to the fractionalism in the whole history of Islam, as these civil affairs began centuries before America was "discovered".

But, never blame Koran for the asininity of some of it's followers.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution, I wish all Muslims thought like you.

-------------------------
You know all the times there were an impressor in front of a righoues throughout the history. At this time it's American government and its zionist lobbyes which are struggling with Islam, and althrough the history of Islam there were so many impressors struggling with it and killing alot of impressed Moslems.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby faridoddinrabbani on February 17th, 2015, 4:09 am 

blog.php?u=19126&b=548

Islam urges justice, fairness toward non-Muslims: Ayatollah Khamenei

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/02/16 ... nonMuslims
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby doogles on February 17th, 2015, 5:18 am 

Ansaralmahdi, you dogmatically stated the following “You know all the times there were an impressor in front of a righoues throughout the history. At this time it's American government and its zionist lobbyes which are struggling with Islam, and althrough the history of Islam there were so many impressors struggling with it and killing alot of impressed Moslems.”

Ansaralmahdi, I am an independent Atheist on this planet. I know that the Americans and the Jews spend much money in defending themselves against Muslim violence. If you actually read and considered my posts in this thread, you will see that the biggest threat to Muslims is Muslims themselves, not Americans or Jews or Europeans. Muslims seem to be more innately violent towards their own broad religious group than the rest of the world combined. Please read my posts of 9th and 10th February. Please do not ignore them before you post again.

If you wish to quote American and Israeli attitudes again, please indicate that you have looked at every other source available from areas in the world where free speech is still practiced. Dogma does not represent a plausible point of view in this modern world.

faridoddinrabbani, I felt a little relieved as an atheistic humanist to see such a statement uttered by an Ayatollah “Islam urges justice, fairness toward non-Muslims: Ayatollah Khamenei.” Unfortunately neither of the two references you presented came up on the Internet. I would really like to read them and comment. Are you able to have another go at presenting them? If it comes out the way it is presented, it will be like one little breath of fresh air to me from the 21st century Muslim faith.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Hendrick Laursen on February 18th, 2015, 5:30 am 

Hi doogles

It seems that you're unlikely to face such a quote in other news nets. PressTV being of Iran, actually translates the message to English. I don't think other sites do.
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Learn Islam

Postby Saeid on February 28th, 2015, 10:34 am 

Dear Friend! Do you know Islam and Muhammad? You may have heard many things about Islam and its Prophet from mass media. Most of the time Muslims are depicted as extremists and terrorists and Prophet Muhammad is repeatedly insulted there. It seems that you are logical thinkers who listen to all words in order to select the best. One of the great Islamic leaders, Imam Khamenei, has written a letter to all people who believe in freedom of speech. If you want to hear others you can read this letter. It takes you a few minutes. Please have a look. You can refer to the following link:

http://english.khamenei.ir//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2001
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Re: Learn Islam

Postby Dave_C on February 28th, 2015, 2:56 pm 

Hello friend! Do you know about science and nature? You may have heard many things about scientific inquiry in the media. Most of the time, Science is depicted as unbiased and in search of fundamental truths about nature but it is repeatedly insulted by extremists and religious fundamentalists. It seems you are a logical thinker who will listen to the unbiased views discussed in the natural sciences. Please consider learning about those natural laws from the greatest minds in science. You will find many people here who are well versed and educated in the natural sciences. Please take a few minutes and consider how Islam and Muhammad blind people to the true nature of our universe.
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Re: Learn Islam

Postby Saeid on February 28th, 2015, 4:17 pm 

What are your documents for your last statement about Islam?Aren't you suppose to learn Islam through its holy book, Quran? There are alot of verses in it which proves exactly the opposite point of your claim.
" Lo! In the creation of the skys and the earth, and the difference of night and day, and the ships which run upon the sea with that which is of use to men, and the water which Allah sendeth down from the sky, thereby reviving the earth after its death, and dispersing all kinds of beasts therein, and (in) the ordinance of the winds, and the clouds obedient between heaven and earth: are signs (of Allah's Sovereignty) for people who have sense "(Al-Baghare-163)
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Re: Learn Islam

Postby doogles on February 28th, 2015, 8:20 pm 

Saeid » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:34 am wrote:Dear Friend! Do you know Islam and Muhammad? You may have heard many things about Islam and its Prophet from mass media. Most of the time Muslims are depicted as extremists and terrorists and Prophet Muhammad is repeatedly insulted there. It seems that you are logical thinkers who listen to all words in order to select the best. One of the great Islamic leaders, Imam Khamenei, has written a letter to all people who believe in freedom of speech. If you want to hear others you can read this letter. It takes you a few minutes. Please have a look. You can refer to the following link:

http://english.khamenei.ir//index.php?o ... ew&id=2001


Saeid.

Are you able to post that reference again? It failed to come up on my computer.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby TheVat on February 28th, 2015, 8:22 pm 

Dave, that was witty but, as Mr. Wilde pointed out, it's best not to engage in a duel of wits with an unarmed man. ;-)
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Re: Learn Islam

Postby Saeid on February 28th, 2015, 10:17 pm 

doogles » February 28th, 2015, 8:20 pm wrote:
Saeid » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:34 am wrote:Dear Friend! Do you know Islam and Muhammad? You may have heard many things about Islam and its Prophet from mass media. Most of the time Muslims are depicted as extremists and terrorists and Prophet Muhammad is repeatedly insulted there. It seems that you are logical thinkers who listen to all words in order to select the best. One of the great Islamic leaders, Imam Khamenei, has written a letter to all people who believe in freedom of speech. If you want to hear others you can read this letter. It takes you a few minutes. Please have a look. You can refer to the following link:

http://english.khamenei.ir//index.php?o ... ew&id=2001


Saeid.

Are you able to post that reference again? It failed to come up on my computer.



http://english.khamenei.ir//index.php?o ... ew&id=2001

please ask this forum about it. Why don't they allow this address to be shown?What is in it that is so dangerous? And dangerous for whom? Aren't you suppose to learn the real Islam for ever?Isn't there any freedom of speech?
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby Saeid on February 28th, 2015, 10:46 pm 

Braininvat » February 28th, 2015, 8:22 pm wrote:Dave, that was witty but, as Mr. Wilde pointed out, it's best not to engage in a duel of wits with an unarmed man. ;-)

Who is unarmed? What are talking about? Are you supposed to fight all the time and ...? Why aren't you able to just listen to or read khamenei's letter justly even for afew minutes?
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Re: Learn Islam

Postby Lomax on February 28th, 2015, 10:53 pm 

Saeid » March 1st, 2015, 3:17 am wrote:please ask this forum about it. Why don't they allow this address to be shown?What is in it that is so dangerous? And dangerous for whom? Aren't you suppose to learn the real Islam for ever?Isn't there any freedom of speech?


The address is automatically contracted in the link to make it more readable. If you use Google Chrome (as I do) you can right-click on the link and choose "inspect element" if you wish to view the URL without following the link. As for the link itself, it works fine for me.
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Re: To the Youth in Europe and North America

Postby doogles on March 1st, 2015, 3:07 am 

Saeid

Thanks for sending that link again. Unfortunately it was just a series of disconnected short clips that were meaningless to me. It did not make any points for discussion.

I can only repeat the gist of what I said earlier in this thread. If, as an atheist I suddenly decided to embrace a religion, the last one I would adopt is Islam because of its current association with violence. Facts I’ve presented earlier in this thread indicate that Muslims have violently killed fellow Muslims by the millions since 1948, and continue to do so daily all over our planet.

I’ve expressed my opinion that maybe the Ayatollah Khomeini should be sending letters to Muslim youth all over the world, urging them to stop killing those of their own faith, for starters.

For that matter, what are the Ayatollahs of the world actively doing to show the rest of the world that their religion IS ‘The way of peace’? Show me the texts (of letters or sermons) they are preaching to members of their own faith to curb this ongoing slaughter of Muslims by Muslims (men, women and children) on a daily basis.

MAYBE IF THE AYATOLLAHS WERE SEEN TO BE GETTING THEIR OWN HOUSES IN ORDER SUCCESSFULLY, ISLAM WOULD CEASE TO BE CONSTANTLY “MISUNDERSTOOD” BY THE REST OF THE WORLD.
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