Object/Subject

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Object/Subject

Postby BadgerJelly on March 21st, 2016, 10:54 am 

As antonyms can object be the antonym to subject and if it can what kind of antonym can it be?

There are different kinds of antonyms.

Complementary pairs - when one implies the absence of the other (eg. Present/absent).
Gradable - such as sad/happy, rich/poor, where the negation of one does not necessarily imply the other.
Relational opposites - where one implies the other, such as husband/wife, mother/child.

I think it makes sense to call object/subject a relational opposite. What then if we consider subjectivity/objectivity. Are subjectivity/objectivity complementary pairs or relational opposites? For if I say something is objective it cannot be subjective.

So am I correct in saying that object/subject are relational opposites and subjectivity/objectivity are complimentary pairs?

If I am correct then does this have any use in philosophy?
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Re: Object/Subject

Postby TheVat on March 21st, 2016, 11:23 am 

There's a difficulty with "...if I say something is objective it cannot be subjective."

For someone else, my nose is objective. For me, it is subjective - a pinkish blur in the lower inward corners of my vision which registers a tingling sensation when I go outside in January. Or an itch when the cat sits on my chest and emits dander and loose fur.
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Re: Object/Subject

Postby BadgerJelly on March 21st, 2016, 12:08 pm 

But for you it is always subjective. Perspective doesn't really come into this because if that was so I can say something is absent that is present for you. The manner in which we use the antonyms is the same. One declares the absence of the other.
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Re: Object/Subject

Postby TheVat on March 21st, 2016, 3:35 pm 

But both perspectives can be on tap at the same time. I'm holding a mirror in my hand.
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Re: Object/Subject

Postby BadgerJelly on March 22nd, 2016, 12:53 am 

So for you they are complimentary pairs? Subjectivity requires Objectivity. Or are they not antonyms at all but merely take on the appearance of antonyms?

Maybe some other examples will help clear this up.

Pass/fail - clearly complimentary pairs.
Winner/loser - clearly relational opposites (it doesn't matter if I can see a loser and winner together I know if there is a winner there is a loser).
Win/lose - complimentary pairs
Fact/fiction - complimentary pairs. Yet with a piece of writing we can say it is gradable (part fact, part fiction). This is probably too subtle a difference to refer to fact/fiction as gradable imo.

So there is a change here when we refer to the act and the object achieving the act.
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Re: Object/Subject

Postby BadgerJelly on March 23rd, 2016, 1:38 am 

Brain -

Do you see what I am getting at? Because if I win I know someone is going to lose. Just because both can be present doesn't change the use of words.

I should have stated I am starting from a linguistic position.

Non-objectivity means subjectivity. For certain we are dealing with antonyms. Object/subject are certainly relational. The root words are relational and the suffixes do something to them and alter the meaning.

When we say something is objective we mean we agree about an object. When we say something is subjective we mean we do not agree about an object. But I can as easily say we agree about a subject too.

A confusion lies in our use of subject interchangably with object. The synymonous use of object/subject can make simple exchanges very confusing possibly without either participant realising.

To put my tingue in my cheek you may say "I object" to which I reply no, to you "I subject" to me you are object.

To return to subjective/objective what kind of antonyms are they? Husband requires wife, object requires subject, but does subjective require objective? This is not the same as me me saying does win require the understanding of what lose means (obviously that is true). The point is win negates lose, where winner requires loser. To me it appears that object requires subject, where subjective negates objective.

From what I have seen written across various forums people feel it completely logical to say something along the lines of "I am the subject of my object". Which when you consider what I have written above is meaningless. Of course people use other terms such as "I" or "self" to cover up such statements and maybe what they mean is not what I have stated at all, but nevertheless that is the appearance it takes.
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Re: Object/Subject

Postby BadgerJelly on March 26th, 2016, 2:43 am 

Do I not get a response Brain?? Have you reduced me to the position of sulking in the corner and pouting in disappointment!?!?

I HATE YOU!!
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Re: Object/Subject

Postby TheVat on March 26th, 2016, 10:17 am 

Busy now and coming week....wife preparing her house down in Nebraska for sale, moving or triage-ing decades of stuff.

And I'm not the best responder on linguistic philosophy, anyway. Would like to hear others. I would recommend concrete examples, on which to test these distinctions?

Don't hate me. :-D
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Re: Object/Subject

Postby BadgerJelly on March 27th, 2016, 1:55 am 

Funny thing is I just looked in my textbook and it says winner/loser are complimentary!?!?

I guess this is because I can be a winner without there being a loser in some situations. There do seem to be antonyms that cross into different areas depending on subjective/objective position and context.

I think I better do some more research ...

It turns out relational opposites means they can only oppose this way. Winner/loser can mean winner only so it is not relational. Examples of relational opposites are doctor:patient, husband:wife, parent:child, etc.,. A winner need not refer to a loser but a wife has to refer to a husband; or husband to wife in Brains situation ;)

Can anyone help in regard to subject/object? Are they complimentary pairs or simply not antonyms at all!? Can they be relational? They must be complimentary opposites because they cannot coexist, but likewise they appear to be relational for to say object means there has to be a subject. If winner:loser is complimentary then subject:object must be complimentary too for the same reasons that winner:loser are.

I think I've seriously confused myself now!! XD
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