Gender stereotypes

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Gender stereotypes

Postby Paul Anthony on March 9th, 2017, 12:54 pm 

After watching the second televised debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in October 2016—a battle between the first female candidate nominated by a major party and an opponent who’d just been caught on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women—Maria Guadalupe, an associate professor of economics and political science at INSEAD, had an idea.

Millions had tuned in to watch a man face off against a woman for the first set of co-ed presidential debates in American history. But how would their perceptions change, she wondered, if the genders of the candidates were switched? She pictured an actress playing Trump, replicating his words, gestures, body language, and tone verbatim, while an actor took on Clinton’s role in the same way. What would the experiment reveal about male and female communication styles, and the differing standards by which we unconsciously judge them?

http://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2017/march/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Braininvat on March 9th, 2017, 2:08 pm 

That sounds so freakishly fascinating that I'm NOT clicking it until I'm home and can really give it full attention.
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Athena on March 9th, 2017, 6:25 pm 

I am not sure but I think the male/female difference has something to do with my so called "obsessing" about respect, a subject that seems to have turned opinions against me. But women who behave like Trump will not win votes and we do not call this double standard "obsessing about respect". Only when this concern about being dignified and respectful is directed towards men is it "obsessing about respect".

https://mediamatters.org/research/2016/ ... ill/199700
Glenn Beck: Clinton A "Stereotypical Bitch." On his radio show in March 2007, then-CNN Headline News host and ABC News commentator Glenn Beck called Clinton a "stereotypical bitch," claiming she could not "be elected president because ... there's something about her vocal range ... it's not what she says, it's how she says it." He added, "She is like the stereotypical -- excuse the expression, but this is the way to -- she's the stereotypical bitch, you know what I mean?" A year later Beck was confronted over his remarks on Good Morning America, where he said "I don't think I'd call her that. I hope I've never called her that. Saying, 'sounds like the stereotypical' -- probably a better word was 'nag.'" [Premiere Radio Networks, The Glenn Beck Program, 3/15/07; ABC News, Good Morning America, 5/30/08, via Media Matters]


And some see Trump as a misogynist, egotistical, narcissistic, bully while others see him as a real stud, and leader of men. Trump is not going to argue respect is important, because that is what a civilized person does, respect others. His power comes from being totally disrespectful and this is socially acceptable for a man. He did not argue issues. He flattered voters and attacked opponents, and avoided reasoning through issues. Not so different from happens in the forums.
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Paul Anthony on March 9th, 2017, 7:40 pm 

Athena, the link I provided is to an experiment conducted by and evaluated by people who supported Clinton and disliked Trump. When the same words, actions and body language were performed by members of the opposite sex, they liked what Trump said. They also didn't find his body language too aggressive. What do you make of that?
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Athena on March 10th, 2017, 12:14 pm 

Paul Anthony » March 9th, 2017, 5:40 pm wrote:Athena, the link I provided is to an experiment conducted by and evaluated by people who supported Clinton and disliked Trump. When the same words, actions and body language were performed by members of the opposite sex, they liked what Trump said. They also didn't find his body language too aggressive. What do you make of that?


I said what I think. I am reminded of John Gray, Ph.D.'s book and videos "MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS". We can speak the same language and not understand each other.

It is so obvious, females flock to Trump like does following a buck, and all the men want the advantages of being the alpha chimp or buck so both men and women agree a bullying male is a good thing. I doubt if they realize the real reason they are reacting to Trump in this way. I don't think thinking people do because they are wanting good reasoning, but Trump is not about good reasoning. He is about the gut feeling, the alpha buck, chimp, human (?).

On the other hand, on talk shows for women, very successful women who are aggressive and decisive share with each other the price they pay for their success, is passing 40 and still not having a man who is their equal and children. Even though they have enough money and power to have anything they want, their happiness is not complete, because, on the hormonal, animal level, happiness is mating and having offspring. What Aristotle would call conditional happiness. The ability to buy 50 pairs of shoes in one shopping spree, does not equal the more base need for mating and reproducing. We can override that, but doing so prevents complete happiness, that is on a biological level. The point being, it is just wrong for a woman to act like Trump, because the bucks will not follow her like the does follow Trump, and on this level, not even women find a woman who is too much like a man (disrespectful and bullying), attractive. Below our intellectual level, at the unconscious level, we are sexist and denying this only means keeping the truth out of our consciousness where we might be able to control it with logic.

We can not change our biological reactions. Women like Thatcher succeed by being like men and they fail for the same reason. A woman has a greater chance of being the leader in a culture that honors women as the mother and nurturer, and does not associate this with weakness. Something that will not happen in Christian dominated society.
Last edited by Athena on March 10th, 2017, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Paul Anthony on March 10th, 2017, 12:22 pm 

Athena » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:14 am wrote:
Paul Anthony » March 9th, 2017, 5:40 pm wrote:Athena, the link I provided is to an experiment conducted by and evaluated by people who supported Clinton and disliked Trump. When the same words, actions and body language were performed by members of the opposite sex, they liked what Trump said. They also didn't find his body language too aggressive. What do you make of that?


I said what I think. I am reminded of John Gray, Ph.D.'s book and videos "MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS". We can speak the same language and not understand each other.



Yes, you told us what you think. But, did you read the article? It contradicts much of what you think.
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Braininvat on March 10th, 2017, 1:01 pm 

There is a lot of the anecdotal here, in terms of the audience reactions to the inversion of genders. This experiment seems like a starting point for study, rather than anything to draw conclusions from. For one thing, we find not only a different gender for each candidate, but a different person, an actor - and each actor brings subtle differences in how they interpret a character and try to reproduce mannerisms and such.

For example, some people just find Trump unattractive, and not just in his words and mannerisms. So, for them, hearing his words from a more attractive female actor is a considerable shift in the delivery system right there. I think one audience member likened the Trump-actress as being like his Jewish aunt who was going to fix things. That made me smile, as I reflected on how little Trump reminds me of anyone's Jewish aunt. Actors, as a group, are not a random sample of humans. They tend to have more expressive and compelling faces (there are exceptions, of course, but how many movies/shows have you watched where the "unattractive" character can only be rendered that way by ill-fitting clothes, glasses, bad hair, and unflattering makeup? Meet them on the street, and they tend to be pretty attractive...)

There is a need to test other variables. What if the genders weren't reversed, but each candidate were replaced by more attractive actors. Say, Ryan Reynolds v. Emma Stone. Or just actors who look different enough from who they are modeling to alter our feelings - say, John Malkovich v. Martha Plimpton?

It did make sense to me, on a gut level, that putting that Clinton nervous smile on a man would not come across well. Russians believe a man conducting business or any professional work should never smile, and there's a certain bias that way in American culture as well (in some social niches more than others) Remember Nixon's nervous smile and how much it hurt him? We don't mind a genuine sunny smile so much (Carter had one, also Reagan), so long as the smiler chooses their moment.

Is there a bias regarding aggressive bullying behavior? I don't see one bias, but perhaps an array of them. The female actress, in this experiment, apparently made Trump's aggressive behavior seem more acceptable to many viewers. It would really help to be able to watch the footage of this. One theory is that some forms of female aggressive speech are perceived as more benevolent, more like the aunt taking charge and fixing thing, while when it comes from men it gets labeled as more negative - alpha male, bullying, throwing one's weight around. Maybe something to that, but that's a fairly recent thing I suspect, and not always that simple. I feel like social science often has very little science in it, and its concepts are pretty slippery when you try to get hold of them. JMO.
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Athena on March 10th, 2017, 1:01 pm 

Paul Anthony » March 10th, 2017, 10:22 am wrote:
Athena » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:14 am wrote:
Paul Anthony » March 9th, 2017, 5:40 pm wrote:Athena, the link I provided is to an experiment conducted by and evaluated by people who supported Clinton and disliked Trump. When the same words, actions and body language were performed by members of the opposite sex, they liked what Trump said. They also didn't find his body language too aggressive. What do you make of that?


I said what I think. I am reminded of John Gray, Ph.D.'s book and videos "MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS". We can speak the same language and not understand each other.



Yes, you told us what you think. But, did you read the article? It contradicts much of what you think.


It does? Interesting. I have to run to an appointment. Perhaps you can say what the contradicting thought is? The media did not treat Hillary any differently from Trump? Christianity has nothing to do with seeing what is right for women differently from what is right for men? Perhaps my ability to understand is being blocked by what I think? I am so glad to be old enough to be aware of that.
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Paul Anthony on March 10th, 2017, 4:54 pm 

Athena » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:01 am wrote:
Yes, you told us what you think. But, did you read the article? It contradicts much of what you think.


It does? Interesting. I have to run to an appointment. Perhaps you can say what the contradicting thought is? The media did not treat Hillary any differently from Trump? Christianity has nothing to do with seeing what is right for women differently from what is right for men? Perhaps my ability to understand is being blocked by what I think? I am so glad to be old enough to be aware of that.


Read the article. Or don't. But please don't post a reply without understanding what you are replying to.
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Re: Gender stereotypes

Postby Athena on March 10th, 2017, 8:27 pm 

Paul Anthony » March 10th, 2017, 2:54 pm wrote:
Read the article. Or don't. But please don't post a reply without understanding what you are replying to.



“The atmosphere among the standing-room-only crowd, which appeared mostly drawn from academic circles, was convivial, but also a little anxious,”

Wouldn't the bias of the crowd being drawn from academic circles instead of being a random cross section sample of regular people be a problem?

Now I understand your objection to what I said. Sorry, I will stay out of your thread.
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