Do feelings matter?

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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 10:17 am 

Starting to see the connections now between learning more about bachelors in my "Dictionary Definitions" thread? It wasn't an accident :-)

Can science discover an underlying essence of water? Kripke/Putnam say yes.

Can science discover an underlying essence of pain? Nope. We already know what it is. Don't need scientists.

But, as I emphasize, Quine ruins everything. Bet he had his pocket money stolen too as a kid.

Wait till we get onto "fitness". That wasn't an accident either.

Hey BiV. I'm ready to tell you my secret now...

"I see confused people. I see them everywhere. They don't know they're confused."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUYKSWQmkrg
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 10:23 am 

Clever lad!! You thought of masochists. I did too. (Or perhaps we both need therapy). Told ya this shit is hard. Ready to talk fitness now?
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 10:28 am 

I now invite all servants to join me in the conservatory for the denouement. It will all make sense soon:

Q1: Were Newton and Einstein tracking the same suspect? We just learned more about him? (see me in "Is Gravity an Illusion")

Q2: Can we come to learn that pain is not what we thought (cf. Einstein learning more about Newtonian Welsh giants)

Q3: Got any fish for this sealion?
Last edited by NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 10:30 am 

That's why I love this place!! People like BiV and Lomax help me understand very hard stuff.

Stuff yer fish up yer own sealion ass. Tee hee!
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 10:51 am 

One more sealion thing: When you mention C-fiber firings, I know you, BiV, but not they (the Asiatic hordes) understand that this is merely a philosopher's example to illustrate a conceptual point.

See also David Berlinski ( I paraphrase) : "When I say the modern whale evolved from a "cow" to make a point, every Darwinian giggles condescendingly and tells me... "No no, you know nothing about evolution. The modern whale and the cow evolved from a common ancestor. Can't you read a book or something? If only you weren't so ignorant""

I know that feeling well, Mr Berlinski.

I told you he's not dumb. He looks like the mad scientist in "Back from the Future". How can a man like that be dumb?

I'm bald and short-sighted too if that helps my credibility.

Christ, you know it ain't easy. But you and Loxax make it worthwhile. And if my theory is correct, you're the same bloke. How would I know if you weren't? :-)

Think about it. Different properties?

Edit: If the point is not clear already (to the Asiatic hordes) does it matter (pain = C-fiber firings) to the argument before you? What if... never mind. You'll pay for examples from now on.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 1st, 2017, 11:08 am 

Thank you Noships. I am not sure if I regret this thread or if it has some value? Originally I know I was thinking about emotional feelings, not the sensation of stubbing a toe, and I was thinking about our pleasure of coming here and exchanging ideas or a displeasure when we don't like what we read and our feelings of trust, safety, and self-esteem. I was expecting something more on the line of discussing why good manners are important. However, there seems to a denial of why we call our emotions feelings and that is curious to me. We experience our emotions in our bodies but perhaps there is a lack of awareness of that? What is happening here?

I find the experiment done on babies and dogs interesting. We are naturally jealous. What is that all about? Neigther the baby nor the dog are doing a lot of thinking about how they feel or why. And what of people who can't tolerate snakes? They have not been bitten by a snake and I can not think of a rational reason for them to not like snakes unless they are poisonous, but I have seen grown men run from little harmless snakes. An explanation of how con artist work explained it is our nature to want to be friendly, and this is what a con artist exploits. Is there more we can know about our feelings than we mentioned so far?
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 1st, 2017, 11:14 am 

Braininvat » July 1st, 2017, 8:15 am wrote:Saw your later post and will have a question about premise 2, which I need to think about.

Crap, page break. Don't have time go back and cut/paste, so I'll just delete this when I return...


Ha, so I am not the only one pushing the limits of time, trying to complete one more thought before I must rush out the door. I loose track of time when I am working on a thought, it is an awful feeling to realize I should have shut down 10 minutes earlier, and post something that isn't well edited.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 11:24 am 

Athena » July 2nd, 2017, 12:08 am wrote:Thank you Noships. I am not sure if I regret this thread or if it has some value? Originally I know I was thinking about emotional feelings, not the sensation of stubbing a toe, and I was thinking about our pleasure of coming here and exchanging ideas or a displeasure when we don't like what we read and our feelings of trust, safety, and self-esteem. I was expecting something more on the line of discussing why good manners are important. However, there seems to a denial of why we call our emotions feelings and that is curious to me. We experience our emotions in our bodies but perhaps there is a lack of awareness of that? What is happening here?

I find the experiment done on babies and dogs interesting. We are naturally jealous. What is that all about? Neigther the baby nor the dog are doing a lot of thinking about how they feel or why. And what of people who can't tolerate snakes? They have not been bitten by a snake and I can not think of a rational reason for them to not like snakes unless they are poisonous, but I have seen grown men run from little harmless snakes. An explanation of how con artist work explained it is our nature to want to be friendly, and this is what a con artist exploits. Is there more we can know about our feelings than we mentioned so far?


You strike me as extremely intelligent, Athena. Never mind the omniscient zookeepers (in the primate house -yes, I saw that). You've made me think a lot. Thank you.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 11:26 am 

I was gonna say they're arrogant ignorant bastards. But you, know, I'm a new man since the sealion thing.

Braininvat is very worth listening to, in my opinion, and so are you. As a general rule of thumb, the more confident a person is in his assertions, the more clueless he is. Yes, I'm sure.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 11:33 am 

But Athena, you do have some questions to answer of your own. Do you believe the emotions are physical? If they are, it's very hard to articulate what that relationship might be. Do you agree?
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 1st, 2017, 12:20 pm 

Athena » July 2nd, 2017, 12:08 am wrote:Thank you Noships. I am not sure if I regret this thread or if it has some value? Originally I know I was thinking about emotional feelings, not the sensation of stubbing a toe, and I was thinking about our pleasure of coming here and exchanging ideas or a displeasure when we don't like what we read and our feelings of trust, safety, and self-esteem. I was expecting something more on the line of discussing why good manners are important. However, there seems to a denial of why we call our emotions feelings and that is curious to me. We experience our emotions in our bodies but perhaps there is a lack of awareness of that? What is happening here?



You see a lot, Dr Lecter. Are you one of Jack Crawford's?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU8jKn7sMwU

I mean, probably not worth thinking about. Bed time here. The FBI have a suspect under surveillance already.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 1st, 2017, 2:24 pm 

That youtube appeared very unpleasant and I can not imagine the benefit of watching it. I worry about people who think such movies are good entertainment. It is unnerving to me that people can watch such things are get some kind of enjoyment out it, rather than feeling so uncomfortable it is not tolerable.

I much rather spend my time listening to college lectures or watching documentaries than watching what some think is good entertainment.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby NoShips on July 2nd, 2017, 7:09 am 

Athena » July 2nd, 2017, 3:24 am wrote:That youtube appeared very unpleasant and I can not imagine the benefit of watching it. I worry about people who think such movies are good entertainment. It is unnerving to me that people can watch such things are get some kind of enjoyment out it, rather than feeling so uncomfortable it is not tolerable.

I much rather spend my time listening to college lectures or watching documentaries than watching what some think is good entertainment.


Athena, my apologies. I only watched the first few seconds of the Youtube clip I posted, hoping to make some silly connection. It does get quite crude later. It was careless of me. Sorry!
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby mitchellmckain on July 3rd, 2017, 10:04 pm 

NoShips » July 2nd, 2017, 6:09 am wrote:
Athena, my apologies. I only watched the first few seconds of the Youtube clip I posted, hoping to make some silly connection. It does get quite crude later. It was careless of me. Sorry!


Oh dear! Silence of the Lambs is a classic! Pleasant? no. Probably better to watch at a younger age when your tolerance for such things is a little higher. But the performances by Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins were quite memorable. For the most part, I do not like films with real monsters (i.e. the human kind), but I liked that movie, though... it is not my favorite film(s) with Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins.

Even watching that clip... riveting! made me want to watch the film again.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 4th, 2017, 12:53 pm 

mitchellmckain » July 3rd, 2017, 8:04 pm wrote:
NoShips » July 2nd, 2017, 6:09 am wrote:
Athena, my apologies. I only watched the first few seconds of the Youtube clip I posted, hoping to make some silly connection. It does get quite crude later. It was careless of me. Sorry!


Oh dear! Silence of the Lambs is a classic! Pleasant? no. Probably better to watch at a younger age when your tolerance for such things is a little higher. But the performances by Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins were quite memorable. For the most part, I do not like films with real monsters (i.e. the human kind), but I liked that movie, though... it is not my favorite film(s) with Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins.

Even watching that clip... riveting! made me want to watch the film again.



I very much appreciate NoShips apology and our different reactions to this are good for this OP. If NoShips had not apologized I would have decided to avoid his post on the grounds his post would not be emotionally safe for me but could cause me distress. Not even when I was young did I enjoy unpleasant movies or TV shows. I remember my mother being very angry with me because I could not tolerate a TV show she was enjoying. I am very sensitive and others are not. I think there is place and purpose for all of us. Within this great variety, each of us should be respected and if someone says something is offensive, it should not be repeated. To argue back and continue the offense, is like rape. It is pushing one's will on another and this wrong. How do people justify insisting others be as they them to be? Hum, well I guess I am quilty of that, because I am asking others to be more sensitive. Hum, an ethical question?

Is insisting we respect one another for no other reason than we are respectful people, equal to insisting someone be less sensitive? I am not sitting through a show that makes me feel awful, no matter how much I want to please someone, and I am not reading posts that cause me to feel uncomfortable. When I understand that is how people chose to relate to each other in an ongoing relationship that is their business and I respect their choice, but when the enjoyment of insults and criticisms and other disturbing communications is not mutual, isn't this tipping into a rape type situation? Is there a difference between saying this is how I want to be treated, and telling someone else how to be (you need a thicker skin, etc.) We are as we are, how we behave is a choice. Ethics? Smile, what has changed about me most is standing firmer on what I want in my life and I don't want. I am no longer as willing to please others by trying to be as they want me to be.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby mitchellmckain on July 4th, 2017, 5:55 pm 

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 11:53 am wrote:I am no longer as willing to please others by trying to be as they want me to be.


And yet you expect others to please you by trying to be what you want them to be.

P.S. I did watch Silence of the Lambs last night from start to finish. (and that is rare for me to do these days)
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 4th, 2017, 10:33 pm 

mitchellmckain » July 4th, 2017, 3:55 pm wrote:
Athena » July 4th, 2017, 11:53 am wrote:I am no longer as willing to please others by trying to be as they want me to be.


And yet you expect others to please you by trying to be what you want them to be.

P.S. I did watch Silence of the Lambs last night from start to finish. (and that is rare for me to do these days)


Is it possible we have more control over how we behave than how we experience life? Is who we are better defined by how we experience life, or by how we behave? When I stopped carelessly using the ****, did it change me or just my behavior? Is it changing you in a fundamental way to insist I be treated with respect or is that just changing your behavior without changing you at all?

I suspect most people have notions of whom they should respect because it is in their best interest to do so, and whom they can victimize because they realize some kind of payoff by victimizing another, like the chicken and chimp hierarchies where no one dare peck on the top guy and everyone pecks on the bottom guy. Are you systematically disrespectful to everyone, in that case how successfully is that working for you? Or are there some people you respect more than others? To be clear, does being respectful mean you have to change, or only your behavior has to change? Could being respectful to everyone change who you are in a negative way? Can you describe how that changes who you are or your experience of life?

Question You do not understand disrespecting someone and repeatedly doing something to a person that you have been asked not to do, as similar to rape? What is the big difference? What is wrong with either, nothing? Are not both a violation of a person's autonomy and dignity? How can there be a sense of safety when it is necessary to keep our defenses up? What kind of reality do we want to create?

I didn't watch "Silence of the Lamb", I am reading a philosophy book about justice.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 4th, 2017, 10:36 pm 

DragonFly, I see you liked Mitchell's post. Would to like to answer my questions and be part of the discussion?

There are many members of this forum from whom I would like to see their answers.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby DragonFly on July 4th, 2017, 10:39 pm 

Strangely, seemingly, is to disregard/detach from those who are stuck, but for some natural and unavoidable involuntary responses, and thus have compassion for those who are stuck only doing but what they must because that is how they've become up to that moment, this leaving not much room left for aggravation which will then only up one's cortisol levels and make you feel jittery.

Yes, still call them on it, for learning is the way to gain a wider range of choice; however, they can be bypassed and ignored without them realizing it if they are really stuck in their stuckness at the doomed level of being unable to learn for the situation. Or, sometimes, if enough is enough, as Mitch does by only saying something once in a while, still challenge them but be prepared for some silly human anger responses coming out even more, and then you will have to say more back, etc.

In general, insulters have already lost since that's all they've got left. The compassion is, yes, for their state, yet it also sets yourself to a more healthy and realistic outlook. Any lingering "if's" and "should have's" about what their behavior could have been will but put you into a fantasy world; actuality trumps these unreal scenarios that become but an imaginary realm to play exercises in for future encounters only. "What if Hitler had won the war?" There is no "if", but one can be on the lookout for future similarity.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby DragonFly on July 4th, 2017, 11:12 pm 

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:36 pm wrote:DragonFly, I see you liked Mitchell's post. Would to like to answer my questions and be part of the discussion?

There are many members of this forum from whom I would like to see their answers.


I posted before seeing this.

Other than the regular forum rules of decorum, in a discussion forum one commits to genuine discussion and debate and really cannot force others not to discuss however they do, if in good spirit, so one needs to be ready to carry on, for water has been going under the bridge in a deal already sealed.

Expectations of the kind that are strong may appear to control and limit others behavior and so such may lead to resentments when the expected behavior doesn't match, which can produce stress as that difference between what is expected and what other action happened.

Feelings and emotions drive people, sometimes right or wrong, more often, sometimes, having a more direct path into consciousness than rational behavior since those feeling may still always be around. Say you and your family like open spaces and so you choose a house with a cathedral ceiling rather than having more square footage. Well, the other rooms may be less in number but at least you all won't feel closed or claustrophobic. Always trade-offs. Or, we all have some crazy relative and so we don't want to be around them, but sometimes we have to. Ever trade-offs.

Feeling matter sometimes and other times they don't–as when they're rather spurious or primitive and thus not meaningful or gospel at all. Learning to disregard one's own thoughts and others thoughts can make one masterful, alert, and more above it all. If not, nonsense ensues time and time again. In other words, this is saying mostly to live and let live while one can. If invaders persist, then take ten eyes for three eyes since the invader initiated the war and even kept going. Still, though, they had to, but such comes to shove upon you then flatten them, for you are your own last integrity and they cannot take that away without a fight nor can they say anything about you employing their own tactics without losing face.

Humans are all over and through the spectrum in their behavior, thanks to the built-in capability for this nature to express itself just as it does from Good to nearly to neutral-detach to neutral-lazy to worse to Bad. A recipe with so much variance in it will always play out to reflect the looseness of it. Blame evolution, yet without evolution where would we be? Nowhere. Trade-offs.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Braininvat on July 5th, 2017, 9:54 am 

I like the pragmatic, and situational, approach of trade-offs, as you outlined them. In choices, purity is rarely possible.

It's why Common Law works better than Napoleonic codes.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 5th, 2017, 10:28 am 

DragonFly » July 4th, 2017, 9:12 pm wrote:
Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:36 pm wrote:DragonFly, I see you liked Mitchell's post. Would to like to answer my questions and be part of the discussion?

There are many members of this forum from whom I would like to see their answers.


I posted before seeing this.

Other than the regular forum rules of decorum, in a discussion forum one commits to genuine discussion and debate and really cannot force others not to discuss however they do, if in good spirit, so one needs to be ready to carry on, for water has been going under the bridge in a deal already sealed.

Expectations of the kind that are strong may appear to control and limit others behavior and so such may lead to resentments when the expected behavior doesn't match, which can produce stress as that difference between what is expected and what other action happened.

Feelings and emotions drive people, sometimes right or wrong, more often, sometimes, having a more direct path into consciousness than rational behavior since those feeling may still always be around. Say you and your family like open spaces and so you choose a house with a cathedral ceiling rather than having more square footage. Well, the other rooms may be less in number but at least you all won't feel closed or claustrophobic. Always trade-offs. Or, we all have some crazy relative and so we don't want to be around them, but sometimes we have to. Ever trade-offs.

Feeling matter sometimes and other times they don't–as when they're rather spurious or primitive and thus not meaningful or gospel at all. Learning to disregard one's own thoughts and others thoughts can make one masterful, alert, and more above it all. If not, nonsense ensues time and time again. In other words, this is saying mostly to live and let live while one can. If invaders persist, then take ten eyes for three eyes since the invader initiated the war and even kept going. Still, though, they had to, but such comes to shove upon you then flatten them, for you are your own last integrity and they cannot take that away without a fight nor can they say anything about you employing their own tactics without losing face.

Humans are all over and through the spectrum in their behavior, thanks to the built-in capability for this nature to express itself just as it does from Good to nearly to neutral-detach to neutral-lazy to worse to Bad. A recipe with so much variance in it will always play out to reflect the looseness of it. Blame evolution, yet without evolution where would we be? Nowhere. Trade-offs.


So you are the same regardless of the people around you? No one inspires you to be a better person or has the opposite effect on you?

What is more limiting, to have ideals and aspire to be the best we can be, or to want to blend in with people who do not want to make an effort and argue something is wrong with people who argue humans have almost unlimited potential?
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 5th, 2017, 10:37 am 

DragonFly » July 4th, 2017, 8:39 pm wrote:Strangely, seemingly, is to disregard/detach from those who are stuck, but for some natural and unavoidable involuntary responses, and thus have compassion for those who are stuck only doing but what they must because that is how they've become up to that moment, this leaving not much room left for aggravation which will then only up one's cortisol levels and make you feel jittery.

Yes, still call them on it, for learning is the way to gain a wider range of choice; however, they can be bypassed and ignored without them realizing it if they are really stuck in their stuckness at the doomed level of being unable to learn for the situation. Or, sometimes, if enough is enough, as Mitch does by only saying something once in a while, still challenge them but be prepared for some silly human anger responses coming out even more, and then you will have to say more back, etc.

In general, insulters have already lost since that's all they've got left. The compassion is, yes, for their state, yet it also sets yourself to a more healthy and realistic outlook. Any lingering "if's" and "should have's" about what their behavior could have been will but put you into a fantasy world; actuality trumps these unreal scenarios that become but an imaginary realm to play exercises in for future encounters only. "What if Hitler had won the war?" There is no "if", but one can be on the lookout for future similarity.


Imaginary realm? Do you think we are living a life already created for us, or are we creating our lives? I think human life is as we make it. I think with awareness and will, we can make life pretty good, but when we lack awareness and lack a will, things can get pretty bad.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby Athena on July 5th, 2017, 10:39 am 

Braininvat » July 5th, 2017, 7:54 am wrote:I like the pragmatic, and situational, approach of trade-offs, as you outlined them. In choices, purity is rarely possible.

It's why Common Law works better than Napoleonic codes.


Are the forum rules more Common Law or Napoleonic code? Why are there are rules?
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby DragonFly on July 5th, 2017, 1:48 pm 

Athena » July 5th, 2017, 9:28 am wrote:So you are the same regardless of the people around you? No one inspires you to be a better person or has the opposite effect on you?


This direction of questioning doesn't follow from anything said or implied.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby DragonFly on July 5th, 2017, 1:57 pm 

Athena » July 5th, 2017, 9:37 am wrote:Do you think we are living a life already created for us, or are we creating our lives?


The brain's nature and its inputs produces outputs, so "we" as the brain direct our lives, albeit as the fixed will of the moment has to do. The will can never be free of the will.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby hyksos on July 5th, 2017, 2:00 pm 

I was asked to interact with this thread so here is my contribution.
...
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby mitchellmckain on July 5th, 2017, 2:48 pm 

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:33 pm wrote:Is it possible we have more control over how we behave than how we experience life? Is who we are better defined by how we experience life, or by how we behave?

Both perception and action are a matter of choice and habit. Though... we can only choose the things which we are aware of, and so, although habit is not necessarily inherited, there is a strong tendency for it to be so. Thus since who we are is found in our choices, this is part of both the experience of life AND behavior. Clearly I am not equating "experience of life" with the events of life, over which we may have very little control.

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:33 pm wrote:Is it changing you in a fundamental way to insist I be treated with respect or is that just changing your behavior without changing you at all?

Your choices change only you. Whatever your "insisting" consists of, whether metaphorically stamping your feet with long boring monologues on the topic of respect, or harangues of accusations and condemnations, these are choices which define only you.

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:33 pm wrote:I suspect most people have notions of whom they should respect because it is in their best interest to do so, and whom they can victimize because they realize some kind of payoff by victimizing another, like the chicken and chimp hierarchies where no one dare peck on the top guy and everyone pecks on the bottom guy. Are you systematically disrespectful to everyone, in that case how successfully is that working for you? Or are there some people you respect more than others? To be clear, does being respectful mean you have to change, or only your behavior has to change? Could being respectful to everyone change who you are in a negative way? Can you describe how that changes who you are or your experience of life?

I am not really interested in measuring myself according to your arbitrarily dictated rules of respect. My own "rules of respect" are naturally quite different. They consist largely of minding my own business such as sticking to the dictates of rational discussion and not indulging in the highly dubious activity of judging other people based on the very scant information provided during internet discussions.

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:33 pm wrote:Question You do not understand disrespecting someone and repeatedly doing something to a person that you have been asked not to do, as similar to rape? What is the big difference?

I clearly do not understand "disrespecting" the same way you do, and I call myself a secularist because I believe in limiting law (and social rules) according to what can be objectively established as harmful. I will not, for example, have any regard for someones claim to be harmed by black people living in their neighborhood or by seeing a homosexual couple kissing each other in the park. It is true that rape is differentiated from sex by mutual consent but this does not mean that everything done without your consent is equivalent to rape.

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:33 pm wrote:Are not both a violation of a person's autonomy and dignity?

I am not sure you can truly violate another person's autonomy and dignity. I do not derive the ideals of a free society from such concepts but see them as based on how everyone's liberty must logically end where another person's begins. For example, religious freedom cannot include trespassing on the same freedoms of other people. So there must be limits on how you can pursue your religious "concern for the souls of other people." You can believe certain behaviors are spiritually damaging but without scientific evidence of harm you have no right to impose these limitations on other people.

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:33 pm wrote:How can there be a sense of safety when it is necessary to keep our defenses up?

That is an excellent question, but what is the proper venue for the question regarding the particular type of safety referred to? The type of safety we expect is different for different types of relationships.

Athena » July 4th, 2017, 9:33 pm wrote:What kind of reality do we want to create?

The reality we would like and the reality we are willing to force on other people may be two different things.
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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby hyksos on July 5th, 2017, 3:25 pm 

Paul Anthony » June 11th, 2017, 11:17 pm wrote:Not wrong. Just written for different audiences. The OT (essentially the Torah) depicted a God more powerful than the mightiest Kings and Emperors of the time. The people needed a strong leader to defeat their enemies. If He proved to be as merciless as the human leaders, all the better.

But by the time of Jesus. the Jewish people had lived with occupation and defeat for a long time. They had accepted the futility of fighting the Roman army. Now they needed a kinder, gentler savior. God, who could be all things for all people, displayed the traits needed by the people in the form of Jesus.

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Re: Do feelings matter?

Postby hyksos on July 5th, 2017, 3:41 pm 

This raises the possibility of "multiple realizability" of mental states, commonly adverted to in the philosophical literature. The claim is often advanced, for example, that computers may one day, if they don't already, think and even be conscious -- they might feel pain as we do. Many of us intuitively sense the plausibility of a sentient computer. But computers don't have brains or bodies!

Very deep topic here. This paragraph almost scrapes the top of the iceberg.

I call for a new thread on this subject.
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