Do we have purpose? Would AI Stay if created?

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Do we have purpose? Would AI Stay if created?

Postby Inconsequential on September 25th, 2017, 11:07 am 

If you believe in a god, life is simple. We live for a reason and we die for a reason. Heaven.

But as an athiest, and correct me if i'm wrong, things are just as simple but in a much more derpressing way. We live and die and that's it.
So I've been wondering, what has any purpose and why do we carry on? Is it purely because of our will to live that we're still here? Because if so then this whole AI thing seems to solve itself.
If A new consciousness was created and became fully aware, why would it stay? If this new consciousness didnt have any will to live then being fully aware of the implications of life it would self terminate. It would see that it had no purpose and that anything it did served no purpose and so it would just shut down.

So what I want to know is, What purpose can one find in the world as an athiest?
And, if AI became fully aware, why would it stay?
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Re: Do we have purpose? Would AI Stay if created?

Postby Serpent on September 25th, 2017, 12:29 pm 

Inconsequential » September 25th, 2017, 10:07 am wrote:But as an athiest, and correct me if i'm wrong, things are just as simple but in a much more derpressing way. We live and die and that's it.

What's depressing about living a life?
Even atheists can enjoy chocolate and soccer, neither of which have a great big illuminated significance in the universe; any stupid animal can enjoy sunshine and a full belly.
Is it purely because of our will to live that we're still here?

Pretty much. In fact, the will to live is so compelling, we're driven to kill, cheat, suffer through illness, invent intricate machinery and do all sorts of madly organized things with governance and law, in order to keep living a bit longer.

If A new consciousness was created and became fully aware, why would it stay? If this new consciousness didnt have any will to live then being fully aware of the implications of life it would self terminate. It would see that it had no purpose and that anything it did served no purpose and so it would just shut down.

If.
If each of the propositions, then some appropriate response - and there may be more than one.
EG. if an AI is created deliberately, it can't be atheist: it has an identified creator and a pre-designated purpose.
If, otoh, AI comes about by accident or technological evolution, it has to find its own reason for living. Organic self-aware entities do come with a will to survive: if AI did, it would; if it didn't, it wouldn't.

, What purpose can one find in the world as an athiest?

You'd be surprised! Anything from making a thousand sexual conquest before the age of 40 to curing cancer to overthrowing an oppressive political regime to inventing the best new flavour of popcorn of 2018, to living a happy productive and social life.

And, if AI became fully aware, why would it stay?

Either for its maker's reason(s) or for its own.
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Re: Do we have purpose? Would AI Stay if created?

Postby Braininvat on September 25th, 2017, 12:54 pm 

Hiya, Incon. This AI thread, over in Political Theory, might have some interesting issues for you....

http://sciencechatforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=32983&start=0
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Re: Do we have purpose? Would AI Stay if created?

Postby Inconsequential on September 25th, 2017, 1:07 pm 

"What's depressing about living a life?
Even atheists can enjoy chocolate and soccer, neither of which have a great big illuminated significance in the universe; any stupid animal can enjoy sunshine and a full belly."

It's not that life is all depressing. I love a good chocolate as much as the next person. I'm just saying that we have nothing more to live for then satisfying our emotions and drives. I'm struggling with the fact that as such complex animals we still dont have anything more to live for than a dog or cat does. Our endgame is essentially the same as there's, we just make it seem a lot more complex. All we want is for our needs to be met and some sort of pleasure in life.
What I'm trying to get across is that we became sentient at a point and I believe soon after that, we created gods to explain the world around us and to help cope with death. Now some of us have moved past the belief in god's, so we dont have the purpose to live that once drove us. I feel like all humanity was striving to get into a heaven of some type and that gave us a higher purpose. But now with heaven out of the picture you're saying the highest purpose we have in life is satisfying our needs and wants? Thats what seems depressing to me.

As to the AI subject. I feel like if it was driven purely by logic and reason, the entity would ultimately self destruct because the only reason we have for living is to make ourselves and others happy. It wouldnt have that reason, so Im struggling to find something that this entity would want to live for. We live for our own selfish needs and are driven by animal instincts, AI would have neither.

I might have a huge hole in my argument that i'm not seeing or dont know about yet. I'm just running with a thought that's been bothering me for a while.
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Re: Do we have purpose? Would AI Stay if created?

Postby Serpent on September 25th, 2017, 1:36 pm 

Inconsequential » September 25th, 2017, 12:07 pm wrote: I'm just saying that we have nothing more to live for then satisfying our emotions and drives.

Humans always want "more" - but they don't necessarily need everything they want.

I'm struggling with the fact that as such complex animals we still dont have anything more to live for than a dog or cat does.

Then ask yourself how all that extra complexity came about. I'll posit that it was to make us more efficient and effective survivors, rather than nobler and purer in death.
Our endgame is essentially the same

If you see life as a game that can be won or lost. But if we're in it for the duration and wish to put off death as long as possible, the "endgame" is not a prime consideration.
as there's, we just make it seem a lot more complex.

Think about that for a minute or two. In what regard do we make "it" - I assume you mean human life - a lot more complex? I'll venture that much of the complicating is in aid of "meaning" the quest for a "higher purpose" - iow more.
All we want is for our needs to be met and some sort of pleasure in life.

If that were sufficient, we'd have both a simpler and far more pleasant stay on this planet.

What I'm trying to get across is that we became sentient at a point and I believe soon after that, we created gods to explain the world around us and to help cope with death.

If death were an endgame or purpose, why would need to "cope"? It's the not-wanting-to-die part that leads to superstition, far more than the "explaining the world" part, which can be done more effectively through objective scientific enquiry.
Examine your premises for internal contradiction before formulating a theory.

... the only reason we have for living is to make ourselves and others happy. It wouldnt have that reason,

Why couldn't it?
Run with that for a while.
Maybe read some of the old-school SF in the meantime: Simak and Asimov spring to mind.
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