Can deism have scientific background ?

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Re: Can deism have scientific background ?

Postby charon on January 24th, 2019, 9:11 am 

socrat44 » February 13th, 2018, 10:35 am wrote:Can deism have scientific background ?


Certainly, since existence is actual and is studyable scientifically. But it would depend on what is meant by a deity. Someone's personal vision (of a man on a cloud) may be erroneous. But in terms of energy/matter it's certainly viable.

In any case, science has probably answered it already since it's claimed that energy can't be created or destroyed. That's another word for eternal.

If we ask for the source of all energy (and call that God) then it's a question of whether modern science is capable of perceiving and identifying such a source. It may not be, which doesn't mean there isn't one.
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Re: Can deism have scientific background ?

Postby hyksos on January 30th, 2021, 5:42 pm 

socrat44 » February 28th, 2018, 12:00 pm wrote:The tendency to understand "God" by physical laws, formulas,
equations using the Quantum Theory ( Physics) never will be ended.
a)
Does Quantum Physics Make it Easier to Believe in God?
https://www.bigquestionsonline.com/cont ... elieve-god
b)
Does Quantum Physics Prove God's Existence?
http://physics.about.com/od/physicsmyth ... tumGod.htm
c)
Does quantum theory prove God exists?
http://www.asktheatheists.com/questions ... od-exists/
d)
Is quantum mechanics creationism, and not science?
      Werner A Hofer
https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.00227
https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.00227v1

(Submitted on 1 Feb 2018,  last revised 23 Feb 2018)
e)
. . . . . etc
================================

I have a lot to say about these articles, but the general click-baity-ness of them is grinding on my nerves.


One of the titles of these blog-like article is : Does Quantum Physics Make it Easier to Believe in God?
This is just not academic enough for me. Easiness of belief is never a criteria for veracity. Quantum field theory is so utterly opposite to human common sense, that it cannot be believed. There is nothing about QFT that makes it "easy" to believe. We are confronted with the theory because of its enormous success in predicting the results of experiment. Anyways , back to the topic.

If you take these two items and mix them together,
(1) Delayed choice quantum eraser.
(2) Boson statistics for two identical particles in 2 boxes.

It seems to me that what you end up with is that reality must contain some kind of "universal wave function" that keeps track of all information everywhere in the universe all at once. In looser language, the UWF "knows" everything everywhere. With DCQE, the UWF also appears to know everything in the past and in the future.

Not to get pulled too far into details, but how I reason this out is that the DCQE shows us that the universe is not particularly concerned with whether a human being observed something. Instead, wave function collapse turns on whether it would, in principle, be possible for a human being to know the state of a system. The DCQE allows this leaked information to be moved around. It could be sent to the moon for instance. If in principle it is possible for this information to get back to a human observer (however circuitously) , the universe will collapse the wave function. Alternatively, if the information is destroyed before that time, the wave function will be in superposition, and interference is observed. Today we have empirical evidence that empty space is not empty, but is actually occupied by the vacuum state of the UWF.

The UWF is very close to what was traditionally called omniscience. If your theology is panentheism, you practically speaking are sitting on scientific evidence of this now.


https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spac ... unHoloPrin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed-c ... tum_eraser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

http://electron6.phys.utk.edu/PhysicsPr ... nting.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman
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Re: Can deism have scientific background ?

Postby TheVat on January 31st, 2021, 11:28 am 

Could the UWF conceptually fit as well with panpsychism? Why is a leap to panentheism warranted?
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Re: Can deism have scientific background ?

Postby hyksos on January 31st, 2021, 4:24 pm 

None of those leaps are warranted. Instead, if you are already a panthentheist for extraneous reasons (place of birth and such) you can point at this UWF as suggestive support for your theology.

Could the UWF conceptually fit as well with panpsychism?

panpsychism circuitously here.

I linked something about the holographic principle. If we go back to DCQE, the wave function collapse appears to be related to whether the information of a system could find its way to an observer. The scenario is describing a "state of a system" and then some information that encodes it , which moves around. The fate of that "information moving around" then is connected to the system in some strange way. So there is an intimate tug-and-pull between system state and information about the state.

Going back to Holographic Principle, physicists have been talking of late about how "much" information can be stored in a region of space. Here we are expected to play a loose conversion between what would normally be physical states, versus describing those states as being information.

The problem is that the configurations of neurons are redundant, in the sense that their raw material could represent a far greater amount of information than they actually do in practice. (... or?)
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