Sound from Silence

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Sound from Silence

Postby Brent696 on July 15th, 2018, 4:15 pm 

I realize this could go in other folders as it is not so technical, but it does speak to the very fabric of reality.

Some-Thing out of No-Thing

In the silence of the room, there is me and the air, and then I speak. My lungs push forth the air, across my larynges, and I take that still silent medium of air, and simply by compressing it upon itself, I transfer information and energy into it, and it ripples out across the room. That same thing (air) which was completely silent, now, empowered by the force of my being, generates sound.

Air, left alone it is silent, powered under compression silence itself becomes sound.

So the Infinite Being, hovers over the void, over that which is No-Thing, and speaks.

Then by the force of His Being, No-thing folds itself into a compressive wave, and then becomes Some-thing, at least temporarily even as sound is the finite to the infinity of silence.

And the Infinite speaks once, then twice, then thrice, creating cords upon the notes.

Now the void, that which is pure nothingness in and of itself, begins to vibrate, and as it does 3 patterns emerge, resonant fields, universal constants, Time, Space, Gravity (locality), and as these patterns interlace so other patterns arise, other constants.

And the symphony strengthens, tone and depth, resonance and echo, and so matter emerges as waves intersect, energy in transition beneath it all, all from the force of a Being, so that which is No-thing begins to take on the appearance of that which is Something-ness, even though finite.

And the voice continues, singing, ringing out, maintaining the body of the orchestra, until it stops, and the vibrations fade, and that which appeared some some-thing, surrenders itself back unto the No-thing from which it was compressed. Where does the sound go, does it collapse, or was it never really there, simply silence in motion.
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby DragonFly on July 15th, 2018, 4:53 pm 

Brent696 » July 15th, 2018, 3:15 pm wrote:
So the Infinite Being, …


non sequitur
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby Brent696 on July 15th, 2018, 5:46 pm 

>>>>So the Infinite Being,

non sequitur<<<<<


Then one might wonder if you would have had the same objection has I started postulating about other universes slapping up against one another, each possessing different dimensional qualities, like difference words carry different vibratory patterns,

If not then I would be wont to question professional jealousies, as if understanding the beginning of the universe could only be understood if spoken in a particular language.

Sometimes my math is extremely simply, for anything of a finite quality to exist, there must be an infinite context for it. Otherwise it is akin to saying babies birth themselves.
And that Absolute Infinity, must have Being and consciousness, if not then how might Being and consciousness manifest even in a finite construct such as this universe.
How can something of a measly ant, manifesting shorter than a puff of smoke, in the backwaters of a swamp of a universe, claim to possess a greater awareness that an Infinite context.
So to me, Infinite Being is a no brainer, one might make an argument over what religion might reflect that Infinity, but to me, Infinity and Being are the obvious, it is only finite Being that I question the true existence of.

And on top of all of this, the crux is how nothing, conforms to appear as something.
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby DragonFly on July 15th, 2018, 6:06 pm 

Brent696 » July 15th, 2018, 4:46 pm wrote:Absolute Infinity


'Infinity' never completes, and so 'it' cannot be an 'it'.
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby Brent696 on July 15th, 2018, 6:38 pm 

>>>>>>>>>'Infinity' never completes, and so 'it' cannot be an 'it'.<<<<<<

You are thinking only of potential infinities as if "Theoretically" there is an infinite number of primes. Or perhaps you are thinking within the boundaries of Time as if you started counting and would continue forever without ever actually having reached Infinity.

These are common mistakes of logic. To understand a transcendent and absolute Infinity, you have to stop thinking you are something. This universe appears as something, but only as energy is being poured into it, we tend to think of this universe as if it is the sum of reality, as if it were BIG. This universe is not big and either is it small, it exists merely as a potential reality.

In short, as long as you think you are "IT", you cannot perceive that which exists in fullness.

Any more pith you would like to share
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby DragonFly on July 15th, 2018, 7:19 pm 

Brent696 » July 15th, 2018, 5:38 pm wrote:a transcendent and absolute Infinity


Unestablished variables, etc., for the rest, such as "transcendent", cannot be shown; try to get them to a 'maybe' status somehow.

Neither actual nor potential 'infinities' can complete; more can be added. No infinite power; no infinite extent; no infinite sequence; no infinite divisibility of time or space; no Zeno paradox (it turns out that time is an interval).

All information is finite and discrete (granularity): Planck limits; Field energy spectra; Black hole max entropy depending on the area of the event horizon; Finite pendulum information; Singularities are not possible, and lead to the bad news of math infinities in some equations. Discreteness has been found in most areas; Einstein's spacetime 'continuum' is next, and the last to come under scrutiny (quantum gravity proposals).

Einstein's boundless curved spacetime idea is fine, as it is finite and not infinite.

'Infinite' cannot be applied as a completed amount or a number. Such 'Infinity' cannot be reached, whether all-at-once timelessly or in time.

Using/overloading words beyond their definition as some stand-alone actual thing/event fails, and is a 'drop' in a debate. The same is often done for 'consciousness' (a brain process), as if it floats around independently or is everything (Brahman's Dream).

Saying "no brainer" doesn't make the idea to be truth and fact. 'Faith' is the honest position.

Does not that which is of, made, or transformed from a Basic Real (if there is such) have some degree of realness to it, albeit temporary?

(Is 'pith' an endearing term or a derogatory term? I'll take it as neutral, meaning the points are not significant.)
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby SciameriKen on July 16th, 2018, 2:38 pm 

Brent696 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:15 pm wrote:I realize this could go in other folders as it is not so technical, but it does speak to the very fabric of reality.

Some-Thing out of No-Thing

In the silence of the room, there is me and the air, and then I speak. My lungs push forth the air, across my larynges, and I take that still silent medium of air, and simply by compressing it upon itself, I transfer information and energy into it, and it ripples out across the room. That same thing (air) which was completely silent, now, empowered by the force of my being, generates sound.

Air, left alone it is silent, powered under compression silence itself becomes sound.

So the Infinite Being, hovers over the void, over that which is No-Thing, and speaks.

Then by the force of His Being, No-thing folds itself into a compressive wave, and then becomes Some-thing, at least temporarily even as sound is the finite to the infinity of silence.

And the Infinite speaks once, then twice, then thrice, creating cords upon the notes.

Now the void, that which is pure nothingness in and of itself, begins to vibrate, and as it does 3 patterns emerge, resonant fields, universal constants, Time, Space, Gravity (locality), and as these patterns interlace so other patterns arise, other constants.

And the symphony strengthens, tone and depth, resonance and echo, and so matter emerges as waves intersect, energy in transition beneath it all, all from the force of a Being, so that which is No-thing begins to take on the appearance of that which is Something-ness, even though finite.

And the voice continues, singing, ringing out, maintaining the body of the orchestra, until it stops, and the vibrations fade, and that which appeared some some-thing, surrenders itself back unto the No-thing from which it was compressed. Where does the sound go, does it collapse, or was it never really there, simply silence in motion.


This is very poetic - but as a reader what am I to take home from what you have written? What is the point here or shall I just appreciate it as art?
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby Brent696 on July 16th, 2018, 4:29 pm 

>>>>>>>This is very poetic - but as a reader what am I to take home from what you have written? What is the point here or shall I just appreciate it as art?<<<<<

Thank you for determining the style as poetic,

The "point" as you say, is that science already has the tools and knowledge to understand how the universe was created. Most scientist begin within the Universe and try to see backwards, so we are building colliders, and modeling particles that may or may not exist, Newton and Einstein and relative to and all this, and all of that is very fine. I have no beef with them sifting the details.

But as presumptuous or egomaniacal as it makes me, I have no problem with how nor even why this universe was created. "HOW" is expressed in the work above, as I use the dynamics of how sound arises out of silence, in this same way, as God or whatever because even M-theory uses such collisions to suggest the information and energy flow into the two dimensional surface that produces our three dimensional experience of this universe. (using their visuals of course)

Even if we get a collider to take up farther back to the beginning, we are still merely looking at the EFFECT and not the cause. But as a, whatever it is that I am, I have simply used an analogy of how a potentially infinity of nothing (silence), can come to manifest itself as a finite something, by mere compression.

What accomplishes that compression or is the catalyst for it, I relate to an Infinity Creator, the "why" of which is not expressed in this post but is in another thread. This post also expresses a complexity of wave patterns they are producing the effect in this universe as our constants as well as matter, which is probably the same thing M-theory is noticing from the inside of of our universe.

I had hoped, that by using a poetic style, and a narrow focus on a single aspect, I might limit some of the blow back from some who seem to take offense by an inclusion of deity, it seems it did not matter though. But otherwise I am also a poet and a song writer, and just now working through a final edit on a book of 66 poems I will publish, so it comes a bit naturally.
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby SciameriKen on July 16th, 2018, 4:44 pm 

Brent696 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:29 pm wrote:>>>>>>>This is very poetic - but as a reader what am I to take home from what you have written? What is the point here or shall I just appreciate it as art?<<<<<

Thank you for determining the style as poetic,

The "point" as you say, is that science already has the tools and knowledge to understand how the universe was created. Most scientist begin within the Universe and try to see backwards, so we are building colliders, and modeling particles that may or may not exist, Newton and Einstein and relative to and all this, and all of that is very fine. I have no beef with them sifting the details.

But as presumptuous or egomaniacal as it makes me, I have no problem with how nor even why this universe was created. "HOW" is expressed in the work above, as I use the dynamics of how sound arises out of silence, in this same way, as God or whatever because even M-theory uses such collisions to suggest the information and energy flow into the two dimensional surface that produces our three dimensional experience of this universe. (using their visuals of course)

Even if we get a collider to take up farther back to the beginning, we are still merely looking at the EFFECT and not the cause. But as a, whatever it is that I am, I have simply used an analogy of how a potentially infinity of nothing (silence), can come to manifest itself as a finite something, by mere compression.

What accomplishes that compression or is the catalyst for it, I relate to an Infinity Creator, the "why" of which is not expressed in this post but is in another thread. This post also expresses a complexity of wave patterns they are producing the effect in this universe as our constants as well as matter, which is probably the same thing M-theory is noticing from the inside of of our universe.

I had hoped, that by using a poetic style, and a narrow focus on a single aspect, I might limit some of the blow back from some who seem to take offense by an inclusion of deity, it seems it did not matter though. But otherwise I am also a poet and a song writer, and just now working through a final edit on a book of 66 poems I will publish, so it comes a bit naturally.



From a scientific perspective the issue here is you are proposing a model for explaining existence, yet as a scientific explanatory model it fails in its ability to generate hypotheses, particularly as invoking a supernatural power is something that cannot be recreated in a laboratory. So in effect - does it explain the how of existence? Yes - does it generate information that someone verify and build upon? No. As poetry it works though :)
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby Brent696 on July 16th, 2018, 5:27 pm 

>>>>>>fails in its ability to generate hypotheses<<<<<<<

First, thank you again for the poetic appraisal, as for the "generate hypotheses", not that I would debate you strongly on this, but I would suggest as the attributes of finitude they are demonstrated and congruent with sound, and the attribute of an Infinite, as within the limitations of creation, are demonstrated and congruent with silence (as we understand there is no absolute silence here), yet the division and relationship of such attribute can say a lot about the overall reality of this universe, its beginning as well as its end and the nature in which it is maintained.

I find that the division between such irreconcilable attributes are being muddied in science today as they are lost in a world of possibilities and probabilities. My mind holds the two Infinite and finite, well apart from each other so I can determine better the "relationship" between the two. I might say they are in conflict with one another, or that they exist quite differently than each other, only one of which can qualify as a true reality.

But if I were to confess a deep determinism in me, just as I see theology cross such lines, so do I see it in philosophy and scientific theories and thought. But all in all the poem was not meant to be a thesis for the application of grant money but perhaps just insight.
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby DragonFly on July 16th, 2018, 7:51 pm 

A spiritual type of poem for Brent that just came to mind, about the ‘needle’ that knits the base fabric of the universe with the threads of the ubiquitous waves, which 'needle'/'waves' we looked for for so long in the haystack of ideas:

Sowing the Silence

What needle created then stitched the strands
Of the covariant quantum fields’ waves,
To weave the warp, weft, and woof of our ‘verse?
Truth, Beauty, Goodness: Being’s perfect braid!

(The 'Needle' remains and would be everywhere, coterminal with the perceptual Cosmos but not necessarily consubstantial with it—Parmedies' idea, for the perceptual Cosmos is emergent from it. The poem may need work, and it could be expanded.)
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby Brent696 on July 16th, 2018, 9:01 pm 

I don't think a thumb's up is enough, I very much like that
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby Brent696 on July 16th, 2018, 9:10 pm 

As poetry still might relate to the topic, I shall share one more as poetry and the courageous search for truth remain entwined.

The Poet

Often am I questioned, of my obsession, I disclose
To speak in praise of sorrow, as others would speak of Gold
Yet how oft do they remember, when love first kissed their lips
And the first to light their hearts, or the woe and bitter sips
When joy and truth, from them, did depart

Alas their innocence laid, sound at rest, in a cold and shallow grave
Their minds and hearts now enveloped, by dreams they had made of clay
And the paper masks which they create, laid open for display
Surely sadness is their displeasure, to choose the sun above the rain
But the gates of death shall bring them terror, and the emptiness in twain, to face alone

As for me I chose this road I travel, and I would choose it once again
For happiness is but a moment, too soon to sink beneath the waves
And the stars and sun and moon, too soon to wax and wane

I will admit it is a truth, that the flower seeks the sun
And a Poet’s heart forever dreams, when first two were joined as one
But the life that feeds the flower, does not only come from up above
But from the rain, the Earth and soil, and the broken heart that yearns for love
And so with eyes and ears unclouded, by the temporal and the dross
A Poet gives his life a ransom, for the promise of the cross
And death is but a companion, a friend to lift him up
A lover’s kiss from the eternal, a lover’s breast wherein he trusts

He fears only conventionality, conformity, never demons or the grave
Life’s pain shall be a comfort, and the emptiness its craves
And while those who are distracted, and upon the Earth shall seek their rest
The Poet’s soul shall forever see perfection, without reflection towards the flesh

Brent R Hurst
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby DragonFly on July 16th, 2018, 10:51 pm 

Great poem, Brent.

It begins in a near Omarian way, with the "woe and bitter sips" and the later "wax and wane" summing up the sadness of the human condition, and, of course we realize that people throughout history had it terribly worse than us in these modern times; however, human folly and misery still abounds, plus it's getting hotter, and more.

"But the life that feeds the flower, does not only come from up above
But from the rain, the Earth and soil,…" demonstrates the necessary confluences.

(Eve wore a chaplet of sweetening buds
That burst in bloom when fed by air and mud,
And a garland of sprouts to strew about,
With a rosary of shoots to put out.)

Poets, when concise and precise, make immortal what is best in life, freeing images of dreams impressed, apprehending vanishing phantasms, sending them forth in fine words, so fully dressed.


History's greatest poems:

FitzGerald’s transmogrification of Omar Khayyam is near unbelievable in its excellence, one of those rare poetic products that could go on for hundreds of years without an equal. Shelley was close, in his poem, ‘Adonais’, as well as was Thomas Gray, in ‘An Elegy Written in a Country Church Yard’. All contain the sadness theme.
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Re: Sound from Silence

Postby BadgerJelly on July 17th, 2018, 12:06 am 

I have seen these kinds of OP before. Glad you opened with the lines ou did though.

Where I find limit is likely to do with my own problems of explicating the deeper “underlying” complexities of being a human. That is the problem of false delineation between human experience and some extra-human transcendental experience.

This brings up the issue of realism and idealism. The physical realist (or rather some imaginary figure head of “physical realism”) cannot help but claim the existence of things extending beyond human comprehension - for obvious reasons this is false, but given that there is no “pure physical realist” out there in the world we’re, as individual subjects, forever feeling our way around the extent of our reach and permanently stretching our capacities (some snap.)
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