You Don't Know Jack

Philosophical, mathematical and computational logic, linguistics, formal argument, game theory, fallacies, paradoxes, puzzles and other related issues.

Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby Braininvat on June 24th, 2017, 9:43 am 

Am back. The problem seems to be the imprecision inherent in natural language. In this example...

Here's a case where true premises yield a true conclusion:

Premise 1: All men are human
Premise 2: Some humans are blind
Conclusion: Some men are blind



The form is weakly constructed, since the truth of the conclusion rests on happening to discover that some men are blind.

Premise 2, as expressed, could allow a state of affairs in which all the "some humans" who are blind are also women. Perhaps a sex-linked gene protects men from blindness, in the future of the human genome. So the conclusion is not analytic, but rather presumes an outside knowledge and epistemic warrant.

I guess my nitty-gritty here is that natural language sentences are prone to hidden assumptions and need someone like DaveO or Lomax to whip them into shape.
User avatar
Braininvat
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 5410
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Black Hills


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 24th, 2017, 9:49 am 

Welcome back. With a tan too.

However, these weakness insults are kinda tiresome. You want a shandy or not?


Pssttt.. who cares about logic shit. Where did ya go? LOL
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 24th, 2017, 9:53 am 

[quote="Braininvat » June 24th, 2017, 10:43 pm"

The form is weakly constructed, since the truth of the conclusion rests on happening to discover that some men are blind.
[/quote]

I don't think so, pal (sexy pal). The good thing about deduction is "it doesn't matter how A, B, C are interpreted"

(Even though I made assertionns to the contrary above, LOL)
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby Braininvat on June 24th, 2017, 9:58 am 

Nebraska. I helped empty a house (and not with my piano playing). Thanks for the shandy, Tristram!

P1:All men are humans.
P2: Some humans have ovaries.
C: Some men have ovaries.

You see my difficulty? By not clarifying natural language terms, we got jabberwocky.
User avatar
Braininvat
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 5410
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Black Hills


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 24th, 2017, 10:05 am 

Erm , whatever, too drunk to deal with this. See me on gravity LOL. You did mention "globality".

Some globality is shite
All globality is shite

QED

I'll throw your trash in the scrapheap tomorrow if you'll do the same for me. LOL

Sorry, just really excited to see you back. We'll investigate the minutiae that no one gives a shit about tomorrow.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby Lomax on June 24th, 2017, 11:54 am 

NoShips » June 23rd, 2017, 4:30 pm wrote:Very clever! Tee hee. Off to bed. See ya. By the way, did you see the disparaging remarks I made about Nuneaton? See the thread on gravity being an illusion. LOL

I had no idea there was a Nuneaton in the North of England. But perhaps we have not been tracking the same town.
User avatar
Lomax
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Location: Nuneaton, UK


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 24th, 2017, 6:11 pm 

Lomax » June 25th, 2017, 12:54 am wrote:I had no idea there was a Nuneaton in the North of England. But perhaps we have not been tracking the same town.


LOL. Now prove you exist. That'll keep you occupied for a while.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 24th, 2017, 9:11 pm 

Braininvat » June 24th, 2017, 10:43 pm wrote:Am back. The problem seems to be the imprecision inherent in natural language.


No doubt, pal, but we're doing syllogisms here. Leave natural language to Benny Hill. Natural language is irrelevant here. The syllogistic rules of inference are formally defined (form as in shape and your alluring callipygous fundament :-) ). In other words, all that matters to us is syntactic structure (sad, isn't it?). The terms remain uninterpreted. We add an interpretation once in a while to highlight an absurd counterexample (like some men having vaginae. Tee hee). We're doing logic; not real world stuff.


Braininvat » June 24th, 2017, 10:43 pm wrote:The form is weakly constructed, since the truth of the conclusion rests on happening to discover that some men are blind.


No, it doesn't. As I slurred earlier, a syllogism deals with uninterpreted symbols. No empirical investigation is necessary.

And don't you EVAH call me weak again!

Braininvat » June 24th, 2017, 10:43 pm wrote:Premise 2, as expressed, could allow a state of affairs in which all the "some humans" who are blind are also women. Perhaps a sex-linked gene protects men from blindness, in the future of the human genome. So the conclusion is not analytic, but rather presumes an outside knowledge and epistemic warrant.


We're not interested in actual "states of affairs". All that concerns us is the truth-preserving nature of a valid syllogistic inference.

Braininvat » June 24th, 2017, 10:43 pm wrote:I guess my nitty-gritty here is that natural language sentences are prone to hidden assumptions and need someone like DaveO or Lomax to whip them into shape.


Never mind them. You got me, babe. Tee hee.

Dang! I'm sick to the back teeth of all syllogisms.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan
Braininvat liked this post


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 24th, 2017, 9:30 pm 

Hey, BiV, just read through my post above and I sound like an assertive Trumptious bumptious arschloch. Didn't mean it that way. Your brilliance never ceases to astound me, Jack. Just wish you were a chick then we could forget all about logic and consummate our relationship in Lomax's bar. Erm, while he's preoccupied.

What is a man of Lomax's abnormal intelligence (a freak, I tell ya) doing in a bar anyway? Wouldn't catch me ....

Ahem

For you, my wonderfully creative and insightful friend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x65-nLCBouE

Edit: So you don't allow "asshele"s here, eh? How ironic.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 24th, 2017, 9:38 pm 

You're a forum neophyte. One step below child molesters and Rap musicians. What would you know? *snicker*

Sounds like pure soap opera to me
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby Lomax on June 24th, 2017, 11:11 pm 

NoShips » June 24th, 2017, 11:11 pm wrote:
Lomax » June 25th, 2017, 12:54 am wrote:I had no idea there was a Nuneaton in the North of England. But perhaps we have not been tracking the same town.


LOL. Now prove you exist. That'll keep you occupied for a while.

Always wiser to stay under the radar, I find.
User avatar
Lomax
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Location: Nuneaton, UK


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 24th, 2017, 11:16 pm 

Lomax » June 25th, 2017, 12:11 pm wrote:Always wiser to stay under the radar, I find.


Might fool them.

Lift up the radar, I say. Oh, look what I found. A Nuneaton bartender.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby Sivad on June 25th, 2017, 12:49 am 

NoShips » June 24th, 2017, 8:16 pm wrote:
Lomax » June 25th, 2017, 12:11 pm wrote:Always wiser to stay under the radar, I find.


Might fool them.

Lift up the radar, I say.


I use decoys.
User avatar
Sivad
Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: 11 Jun 2017


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby Braininvat on June 25th, 2017, 12:53 am 

Re thread title: Is that the movie where Alpa Chino says, say hello to my little syllogism?

Nuneaton is famous for its terrible famine, the name a corruption of None Eatin'.
User avatar
Braininvat
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 5410
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Black Hills
NoShips liked this post


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 25th, 2017, 12:57 am 

Get off my thread - Harrison Fordigism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3PJftd-_E
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 25th, 2017, 1:02 am 

You might invoke Quine to spoil the party though LOL.

Logic, you say? That can be changed.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby Braininvat on June 25th, 2017, 11:19 am 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA0glbG6c-8

Logic can be changed? You're outta order!
User avatar
Braininvat
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 5410
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Black Hills
NoShips liked this post


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 25th, 2017, 11:22 am 

Outta order? I'd show you outta order, but I'm too old, too tired, and too blind.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 25th, 2017, 11:25 am 

Please watch your language, Mr Braininvat. We're in SPCF not the barracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUE4v1rUpSM
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan
Braininvat liked this post


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 25th, 2017, 11:27 am 

Hey dude. I don't think anyone denies logic rules can be changed. But right now we're playing syllogistic rules. We play by the rules given.

Out of order? Who the hell do you think you're talking to!!!

Tee hee

and Mr Noships doesn't need to be labelled "not a Baird man"

lol

Mr Trash *giggles*

Hey BiV, you do know we;re joking, right? You're a brilliant fellah.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Re: You Don't Know Jack

Postby NoShips on June 25th, 2017, 11:43 am 

Yes, I know, Quine fooks up everything. All bets are off. But a man needs to eat.
User avatar
NoShips
Banned User
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Location: Taiwan


Previous

Return to Logic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests