You cannot step into the same river twice

Philosophical, mathematical and computational logic, linguistics, formal argument, game theory, fallacies, paradoxes, puzzles and other related issues.

You cannot step into the same river twice

Postby HomunculusThor on June 30th, 2015, 11:16 pm 

Heraclitus, about 2,500 years ago, is the one named as saying, "You cannot step into the same river twice".
But he must have been a blunt disciple, for, if you consider it for a only a moment:
"You cannot step into the SAME river once".
HomunculusThor
Forum Neophyte
 
Posts: 12
Joined: 26 Dec 2010


Re: You cannot step into the same river twice

Postby Watson on June 30th, 2015, 11:20 pm 

'No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.'
User avatar
Watson
Resident Member
 
Posts: 4583
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Location: Earth, middle of the top half, but only briefly each 24 hours.
zetreque liked this post


Re: You cannot step into the same river twice

Postby zetreque on July 1st, 2015, 2:53 am 

HomunculusThor » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:16 pm wrote:Heraclitus, about 2,500 years ago, is the one named as saying, "You cannot step into the same river twice".
But he must have been a blunt disciple, for, if you consider it for a only a moment:
"You cannot step into the SAME river once".


Do you think they were that critical over vocabulary/grammar back then when a large majority couldn't even read or write, or is it possible that they had a different definition and meaning to the word same? it's all in the definition of how you define same.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3561
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: You cannot step into the same river twice

Postby doogles on July 1st, 2015, 4:31 am 

Watson » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:20 pm wrote:'No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.'


Yes, Watson has explained the point that Heraclitus was making - essentially that most things in nature change to some extent. From Heraclitus' viewpoint in his day, it would have been at a macroscopic level.

The man and river metaphor was a dramatic way of making that point.

Carried to a extreme, I like the one by anonymous, that states "If you go down to the beach and pick up a single grain of sand and put it down somewhere else, you will have changed the world."

At least you don't get your feet wet in testing the latter hypothesis.
User avatar
doogles
Member
 
Posts: 981
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Location: BRISBANE
Braininvat liked this post


Re: You cannot step into the same river twice

Postby neuro on July 1st, 2015, 5:46 am 

While Heraclitus point was about change/movement being the only reality (panta rei), as opposed to Zenone's views, today it might be of interest to observe how we cannot avoid to attribute a "substantial reality" and a NAME to any pattern that displays a certain level of stability, although it is generated by processes that involve ever new elementary constituents (such as the pattern of water flow in a valley, or the pattern of light that a burning log generates in the fireplace).

Actually, physicists seem to warn us that we keep attributing a "substantial reality" and NAMES to mere combinations of fluctuations of energy...
User avatar
neuro
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: italy


Re: You cannot step into the same river twice

Postby Watson on July 1st, 2015, 12:42 pm 

These days it is not just about change. It is increasingly more about depletion. Suppose each time a man steps into the river it is more shallow than the time before. At a future time, there will be no river.

The point is we are using earths resources as if we just need to go out and get them. Various resources have been given a life expectancy. Copper is about 25 years, but it might be less given the increasing demand. Even though copper is largely recovered and recycled, demand will at some point, be greater than recovered and mined copper. Obviously the price goes up, but that is just the band aid.

It could be any number of resources that we are depleting. Rising prices only dampens the demand. It doesn't make more of the resource.
User avatar
Watson
Resident Member
 
Posts: 4583
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Location: Earth, middle of the top half, but only briefly each 24 hours.


Re: You cannot step into the same river twice

Postby Don Juan on December 9th, 2015, 12:49 pm 

HomunculusThor » July 1st, 2015, 5:16 am wrote:Heraclitus, about 2,500 years ago, is the one named as saying, "You cannot step into the same river twice".


The statement cannot be said past the first word and be true. One cannot say "You" and time freezes after that. The moment one finish uttering the first word, would he or she be the same You, unless the statement would admit there's a degree of sameness in things through time.
Don Juan
Active Member
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: 17 Jun 2010



Return to Logic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests