Can Universe be described as a set?

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Can Universe be described as a set?

Postby in_vaccum on September 10th, 2016, 10:54 pm 

Here is an argument:
"The universe isn't a set. A set is a mathematical construct defined axiomatically. A set is a mathematical model that's useful for describing many things. There are many things in the universe that can be modeled very well using set theory. But that's entirely different from saying that the universe, or that anything in the universe is a set. A mathematical model is not the thing that it models.

There are also many things in the universe that cannot be modeled very well using set theory. (For example, try to put together a meaningful set-theoretic model of vacuum fluctuation and hawking radiation based on the set of particles in the universe. It really doesn't fit well.)
"

1. Is the above argument correct?
2. Can Universe be described as a set?
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Re: Can Universe be described as a set?

Postby jocular on September 11th, 2016, 8:15 am 

I think you are right . If the universe as a whole was a set ,what would be the elements?

On the other hand (and my level of learning is very basic) I like the idea of considering the set of events which is how I understand the GR model is st up (maybe I am wrong but I think I have heard that)

If that is correct then that aspect of the universe might comprise "everything" since everything physical is an event ,isn't it?

Perhaps even mental constructs can be described as "events" if they are regarded as bits of information .(of course I am speculating wildly and possibly incoherently).

But it is well known that GR is incomplete and so ,unless "events" outside the applicability of GR can be included in the "set of events" then the universe can not be shown to be a set in this respect.

Feel free to pick apart (if it is worth picking apart :) )
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Re: Can Universe be described as a set?

Postby vivian maxine on September 11th, 2016, 8:56 am 

a set = a total group of similar things. Universal set= stars, planets, comets, black holes, galaxies, life forms, etc. What makes this universe a special set? Its dimensions. Other universes of different dimensions would be other sets. Acceptable?
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Re: Can Universe be described as a set?

Postby Braininvat on September 11th, 2016, 10:44 am 

If you go with a unification approach like Loop Quantum Gravity, you could maybe describe the U as a growing set of Planck volumes and particle transactions. But you would need a valid way to say that virtual particle pairs cancel each other out, i. e. don't count. Outside of a black hole, they could be seen as empty sets? U is the set of all interactions, all Planck volumes, and all empty sets?
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Re: Can Universe be described as a set?

Postby jocular on September 11th, 2016, 11:22 am 

If the basic unit is informational (flying a kite?) can the universe be regarded as the set of all information?

Betraying my complete lack of a grasp of the subject, if the world is a hologram does that mean all interactions between things are mediated by a processor at the boundary of the Universe (almost like an all knowing god )

No emoticons on the site? I wanted to do an "Eek!"
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Re: Can Universe be described as a set?

Postby Athena on September 11th, 2016, 1:43 pm 

vivian maxine » September 11th, 2016, 6:56 am wrote:a set = a total group of similar things. Universal set= stars, planets, comets, black holes, galaxies, life forms, etc. What makes this universe a special set? Its dimensions. Other universes of different dimensions would be other sets. Acceptable?


Looks good to me.
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Re: Can Universe be described as a set?

Postby in_vaccum on September 12th, 2016, 12:07 am 

vivian maxine » September 11th, 2016, 7:26 pm wrote:a set = a total group of similar things. Universal set= stars, planets, comets, black holes, galaxies, life forms, etc. What makes this universe a special set? Its dimensions. Other universes of different dimensions would be other sets. Acceptable?


Sounds good!
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