395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on February 9th, 2014, 11:02 am 

Ha! If it is on a collision course with us please don't tell me. I like surprises and I don't watch the news the way I should. I'll figure it out eventually, I always do. :)
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on February 22nd, 2014, 7:26 pm 

Www.spacerocks.org describes several of these at-home tests. There are also several other websites that describe the same tests. As I have said earlier in this post, this piece has passed all these tests. You are correct that I have no definite way of confirming what this is, that was kind of the point of this post. If you've watched this video and still doubt it's a meteorite, then that's fine. I would like very much to know what you think it might be. Ive done my research, I hope you've done yours.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Watson on February 23rd, 2014, 11:00 am 

Hi Keith,
There are a few of us interested in what you are able to find out. I wouldn't worry about advise from someone with nothing to say.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on February 23rd, 2014, 8:47 pm 

I wasn't worried about it. I encourage people to challenge my knowledge. He said I have no way to test these features and I showed that I did. That's what I think is great about this site!

My response from NEMS:

Oct. 5th 2011

Thank you for sending the sample for us to examine. The sample received is terrestrial in occurrence and not meteoritical in origin. It is a coarse grained, igneous rock with plagioclase and hornblende. It is not a meteorite.

The determination of whether or not a specimen is meteoritical is well constrained by the differences between the chemistry and texture of terrestrial mineralogy and extra-terrestrial mineralogy. They are distinct and fairly easily tested and measured in a lab.

To help you further, as is part of our express service, included is a small section of a stone meteorite in the return envelope that may be helpful to youin identifying a meteorite.

When you can, please refer to our site and scan through the meteorite images. A quick way to do this is to go directly to the 'site express' section and then to all the photos listed. One very good page to go to is 'fusion crust' (in the site express section).

The site has hundreds of images and pages that should be helpful and interesting.

For additional testing, if interested, I suggest the smithsonian in Washington DC or the Johnson space center in Houston, Texas (addresses on web). The service is free nut it may take a several months for a response.

Sorry that the material was not meteoritical.

Sincerely,

R. Kempton, Director
NEMS

(end of letter)

Now, this is one of many such letters I have. But what's puzzling is the Smithsonian in Washington DC said it was something different. A quick search on google for plagioclase in meteorites shows voila meteorites can contain plagioclase. I don't really see how anyone can call this coarsed grained, but I can't really show that here. But, plagioclase and hornblende will leave a streak and both have cleavage, while this piece doesn't do either. I really wasn't happy with the explanation of the testing they did. At the same time if I paid this place the $45 for this why would they suggest further testing?? That's never sat well with me.

In all fairness, this is one of the few places that actually returned my pieces.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on February 23rd, 2014, 9:02 pm 

Nov 2012

Paul P. Siperia
Adjunct Curator of Meteorites
Field Museum of Natural History
Chicago, Illonois, USA

In a phone call said that after conferring with a colleague, that it was phonolite. Phonolite is known for it's quality of sounding like a bell when struck, and has even been used as such. It also breaks off in slabs and has been used as roofing material. As I have said, my piece has no fracture or cleavage. But I didn't actually send the sample to the Field Museum. It was somewhere across the state (haven't found the address in my records yet). My samples were not returned.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Watson on February 23rd, 2014, 10:26 pm 

I wasn't worried about it. I encourage people to challenge my knowledge. He said I have no way to test these features and I showed that I did. That's what I think is great about this site!


Yes, but it was the tone of the comment that I replied in kind. I expect all is good. So where are we/you at with this? Is this bell sounding substance common on earth? Sounds like one person says yes and another says no. I'll have to reread some of this.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on February 24th, 2014, 6:08 pm 

Phonolite or "sounding stone" is metamorphic according to wikipedia. It is found in Arkansas and parts of Canada but I haven't seen anything about it's presence in Michigan. Also it has a distinct green hue and I doubt very much that it's magnetic. This was one of the easier ones to disprove. But now I have one igneous and one saying metamorphic. I think one of the smaller colleges I've been to even said sedimentary (I know where I'm NOT going to send my kids for their degree). This is my dilemma. Had they all said it was phonolite or whatever, had they all agreed on what this was, I probably would have forgotten it long ago.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on February 25th, 2014, 6:15 pm 

Summer 2011

Richard Walker
Astronomer, Director
Longway Planetarium
Flint, MI

I rolled this beast in the backseat and took it to the planetarium. After making contact with Mr. Walker and convincing him to come out to the parking lot to have a look at this, (no easy task as Flint has been the #1 murder capital of the world several times in the last decade) he was a bit skeptical at first. It was really when he had seen how the compass reacted did he become convinced. He said that it looks promising several times, but I was unable to to get him to say how the verification process worked. But he was very excited, visibly. He told me not to ever get rid of it for just a few thousand dollars. He was able to recommend 4 institutions for testing, (4 different answers) NEMS and the Field Museum were two of them. On the way out the door he said something striking. He reminded me of the value and said, "When you figure this out, you'll be able to buy your own Hawaiin island". It was a long ride home.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on March 29th, 2014, 3:23 pm 

There is a rock, mineral, fossil, gem and jewelry show next weekend in Columbus, Ohio. That's not too far so I'm going to take it down there and check out the free specimen ID that the ad was talking about. I'll let you all know how it went.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Watson on March 29th, 2014, 6:24 pm 

Don't let them palm your rock, and swap it for something worthless. Good luck.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on March 29th, 2014, 6:37 pm 

That's good advice. I've had that happen before. I'm going to take the big one for the shock factor.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on May 6th, 2014, 5:25 pm 

The metal detector would not show either nickel or iron on the big rock, but did on a small piece, very puzzling.

The rock show did not yield much results. Gary Getz was the geologist there. He was quite puzzled by it, and eventually landed on it being feldspar (found in meteorites). He gave me the number to a meteorite dealer in Detroit. I am still waiting to hear back from him.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on July 6th, 2014, 7:45 pm 

Dave Lacko said it was basalt...no wait diorite. Although he did send my sample back to me.

On an unrelated note, my absence was due to being unavoidably kicked offline. Fair warning I'm back now. Ha!
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Watson on July 6th, 2014, 8:07 pm 

Hi,
So what does that mean? Diorite?
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on July 8th, 2014, 5:52 pm 

That was a new one on me, but looking on wiki it is a coarse grained igneous rock. It does have several minerals that are common to meteorites, though.
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395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on October 14th, 2014, 7:43 pm 

I've been considering boring a sample of the interior of this piece. I can have it examined with an electron microscope and obtain a complete chemical analysis. I think I'd rather have a piece of the inside as opposed to the very outside. I would then need to find someone to interpret the raw data with a view of whether or not it is a meteorite.

Just an update, guys. Hope to hear from you.

Keith
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Watson on October 14th, 2014, 7:50 pm 

Yes I think the inside could be more telling. Thanks for the update.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Orionz on October 14th, 2014, 9:20 pm 

Hey Dude, I'm new here and just made a lengthy post giving a sympathetic tone to my explanation but somehow i managed to delete it.

I'll just be brief.


I really think what you have is a chunk of Iron Slag from a large foundry.

It is those Swiss Cheese Bubbles.

Real Meteorites have surface dimples where they were blasted during entry, but this whole chunk of Iron ore was molten and volatile gasses were trapped as it solidified. Just like Swiss Cheese or Bread.

look at this:

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m093.htm

And Google Image Iron Slag.

Sorry, I would have preferred to get excited about this.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on October 15th, 2014, 7:37 pm 

Let me start by saying that I encourage everyone's opinion and welcome all input. Smelter slag, milling balls, old cannon balls, and various other pieces of iron are commonly mistaken for meteorites. Smelter slag will leave a streak on a unglazed porcelain tile, "the streak test" where this piece has none. These iron items have one thing in common, they rust. I have said that I don't think this is an iron meteorite. Streak is an important indicator. There are a rare few meteorites that will leave a streak, but for the most part, if it leaves a streak, it's not a meteorite. Any of these would have a strong pull on your magnet, almost that of iron. This proposed spacerock has a slighter but still definitely there kind of pull. I should think the muriatic acid would have had a stronger reaction on a piece of slag. I'd have to look it up, but I think slag would have scored higher on the density test, too.

Hope to hear from you all soon.

Keith

P.S. I was thinking of drilling into one of the existing holes- doesn't hurt the appearance and less to drill through.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Watson on October 15th, 2014, 10:05 pm 

Who drilled the existing holes or are these natural dents?
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Orionz on October 15th, 2014, 10:13 pm 

The problem with thinking Iron Slag is mostly Iron is that it isn't. At very best Iron & Tin make up less than 30%. Most slags actually contain very little Iron.

http://www.slg.jp/e/slag/character.html

But the thing that's just a big NO is the Swiss Cheese holes.

http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteo ... immung.htm

[img]
http://www.meteorite-recon.com/img_inve ... hlacke.jpg[/img]

Slags
These are the most common meteorwrongs and they are identified quite easily. Most terrestrial or furnace slags contain cavities or pores within them. Such holes or 'vesicles' were produced by bubbles of gas which formed during the smelting process. If you find a rock that contains many of these vesicles it is almost certainly man made material or a terrestrial rock - for sure it is not a meteorite.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Braininvat on October 16th, 2014, 1:19 pm 

Yeah, I had a piece of slag I picked up when touring an old ironworks in the Boston area many years ago, it had very little pull on the magnet. Interesting about the swiss cheese holes - I like the nomenclature "meteorwrongs."
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on November 1st, 2014, 6:19 am 

Watson, other than a few places where samples were broken off it is exactly the way I found it. These holes were always there. I was trying to say if I were to bore a sample, I should do it in one of the existing holes. No one has drilled into it at this point. I am currently sending a sample to aerolite ind. to get their two cents.

Orionz, I have spent some time looking over the information you've presented and your right, slag has little iron in it. It's mostly limestone, silica and glass as well as other quite light materials. While appearance is an indicator you cannot simply say it has holes therefore is not a meteorite. I would encourage you to do a Google image search for "meteorites with holes". Slag is light and will not score so highly on the density test as you have said because it is so low in iron. I have seen places that said it may or may not leave a streak. There are many factors here you have not addressed such as what type of reaction should one expect if i were to expose slag to a strong acid. I encourage you to look up some of these tests. Www.spacerocks.org is a good one. Aerolite is another. Really at this point you've simply stated it's not one becyause it has holes. Disappointed, starmetal rolls it into a gravel pit never to be seen again.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Watson on January 25th, 2015, 8:10 pm 

Any updates on your find?
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on February 22nd, 2015, 3:27 pm 

Not much to report lately. This has kind of taken the back burner the last few months. I've considered rehashing some of the old data onto here in case I've missed something. Feels like I've hit another dead end. That's happened a lot and I always find a new path to take.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Watson on February 22nd, 2015, 9:14 pm 

OK thanks for staying in touch.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Darby on February 23rd, 2015, 3:08 pm 

I'm no expert, but that sure looks meteoric to me. Doesnt remotely look like forge slag or volcanic basalt either.

I'd recommend the following:

* Get a volume reading by lowering it into a large pail half filled with water, and compute the displacement. Then use the weight to get an average density reading.

* Shave off one of those small protrusions with a diamond or watersaw, then polish the cut surface, then spend $60-100 on a decent lighted digital microscope with 200x+ magnification, and then you can send digital photos of the polished cut face wherever you need to without having to squander samples and submission fees. Doing so should greatly simplify future contacts with a variety of sources.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on February 26th, 2015, 6:26 pm 

The whole thing is 393 pounds. When suspended in water it's 131 pounds. Although the scale used only measures whole pounds I still figure it at a solid 3.0, right in the meteoritical range. Your idea to take pictures with a microscope is a very good one. I will look into that more, thank you.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Darby on February 26th, 2015, 6:43 pm 

Hope it works out for you.

This one is only $35 and goes upto 200x ... I dont own one yet, but was planning to order one in the near future.

http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Handheld ... 431&sr=1-2

There are youtube vids out there that are easily searched which show operation and performance of same ... it looks pretty decent for most non-professional needs.
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Re: 395 lb stonyiron meteorite!

Postby Starmetal on September 15th, 2015, 6:30 pm 

I was at the local planetarium in Bay City, MI, where I struck up a conversation with a lady who worked there. She gave me the phone number for the geologist for Delta college. Delta and the planetarium are all in the same building. I will call him at the end of the week. I have not had good luck thus far with colleges but have had excellent luck with planetariums and with geologists. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.
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