Jorrie wrote:For this to be true, it would require that the capacitance and/or the inductance per meter length of a coax cable must be changing with orientation in space.
Dave_Oblad » 20 Feb 2017, 20:42 wrote:Jorrie wrote:For this to be true, it would require that the capacitance and/or the inductance per meter length of a coax cable must be changing with orientation in space.
Wrong. You must include the fact that propagation speed through a cable is subject to the same limitations as Light through a Vacuum.
Dave_O wrote:Even in a copper cable, which is mostly just space anyway between it composite atoms etc, you still can't go faster than Light Speed.
Dave_Oblad » 21 Feb 2017, 08:09 wrote:On my side: I only need the premise that the Velocity of Light is not additive to the velocity of the source of that light.
But just out of curiosity, do you believe the time for light to travel from source to mirror is the same as the return trip, given the test is in motion parallel to the direction of the light path?
BurtJordaan » February 21st, 2017, 7:42 am wrote:It does not help if you misinterpret what that premise means. It means if I measure the speed of the source in my inertial frame and I measure the speed of light coming from it in my inertial frame, the two speeds cannot be additive, because I always get c, irrespective of any relative movement between me and the source.
This contradicts your premise that the one-way speed differs from the two-way average speed.
Dave_Oblad wrote:But given the "Non_Additive" principle, we must agree that the lower beam/flash path is longer than the return beam/flash path and thus they can not be equal in path lengths and thus they can not be equal in flight duration's.
Positor wrote:But they can be equal in speed.
Positor » 22 Feb 2017, 17:04 wrote:BurtJordaan » February 21st, 2017, 7:42 am wrote:It does not help if you misinterpret what that premise means. It means if I measure the speed of the source in my inertial frame and I measure the speed of light coming from it in my inertial frame, the two speeds cannot be additive, because I always get c, irrespective of any relative movement between me and the source.
Do you agree with Burt's first paragraph above?Dave_O wrote:The Speed of Light is an absolute Distance in a period of Time. You can't make it go faster by adding it to the speed of the source.
BurtJordaan » February 23rd, 2017, 4:46 am wrote:A case at point is the misconception that inside the molecules and atoms of a coax cable, there is some portion of the propagation of EM signals that travel at "c" relative to "some aether". The modern scientific view, stated very simply, is that the signals propagate in a probabilistic (quantum) way between microscopic parts of the material, to which we can only ascribe an average speed of signal propagation in the cable. This speed is determined solely by electro-mechanical properties of the cable, as described in the OP.
Wiki wrote:Technically, quantum field theory provides the mathematical framework for the Standard Model, in which a Lagrangian controls the dynamics and kinematics of the theory. Each kind of particle is described in terms of a dynamical field that pervades space-time. The construction of the Standard Model proceeds following the modern method of constructing most field theories: by first postulating a set of symmetries of the system, and then by writing down the most general renormalizable Lagrangian from its particle (field) content that observes these symmetries.
Jorrie wrote:..speed is determined solely by electro-mechanical properties of the cable
Wiki wrote:The drift velocity deals with the average velocity of a particle, such as an electron, due to an electric field. In general, an electron will propagate randomly in a conductor at the Fermi velocity. Free electrons in a conductor follow a random path. Without the presence of an electric field, the electrons have no net velocity. When a DC voltage is applied, the electron drift velocity will increase in speed proportionally to the strength of the electric field. The drift velocity is on the order of millimeters per hour.
Dave_Oblad » 25 Feb 2017, 00:19 wrote:Jorrie is absolutely correct in describing the flow of Electrons through a Cable is slowed by Quantum Probabilities. Thus the Speed of Voltage Pressure is very fast (but not Light Speed) but the actual travel duration of any individual Electron could take hours to go just a few inches.
Jorrie wrote:Lucky us that you are wrong!
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog862/node/1786 wrote:Doppler information has broad applications in signal processing. It can be used to discriminate between the signals from various GPS satellites, to determine integer ambiguities in kinematic surveying, as a help in the detection of cycle slips, and as an additional independent observable for autonomous point positioning. But perhaps the most important application of Doppler data is the determination of the range rate between a receiver and a satellite. Range rate is a term used to mean the rate at which the range between a satellite and a receiver changes over a particular period of time.
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