It seems so obvious that we don't do a good job of teaching, whether by instruction or example
wolfhnd wrote:I suspect that the increase in awareness of the risk of sexual assault are do to changes in law enforcement and reporting technology more so than the prevalence of rape so caution should apply to historical rates.
As for religion, well the Catholic Churches cover up of abusive priest and this story on muslin immigrants may be an indication of how little help it offers. http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/mu ... n-and.html
wolfhnd wrote:ronjanec you may be right but I can't find any historical data that is trustworthy. Random crime certainly seems more prevalent but other factors come into play when trying to decide if it is getting worse or better.
CanadysPeak wrote:Is part of it that we men who never act that way also don't speak up? Do we have a responsibility for our brutal brethren? Thoughts? Comments?
ronjanec wrote:The Catholic priests are kind of a special case here, and are basically forced to go against their human nature to never have any sex.
Louis_B wrote:Hi Canady. I think during puberty and adolescence there is far too much testosterone and far too little learned control to deal with it. Add to this peer pressure in macho gang groups and other violence-rewarding cultural dysfunctions that it sadly inevitable I think that some young studs will go competely crazy and rape someone.
I personally detest the confrontational way courts deal with such cases, meaning very often the victim feels raped twice. Once by the perp, and again by the system. This to me is exceedingly inhumane and ought to be reevaluated with extreme predjudice.
Sisyphus wrote:CanadysPeak wrote:Is part of it that we men who never act that way also don't speak up? Do we have a responsibility for our brutal brethren? Thoughts? Comments?
Yes. I think this video will answer your questions... http://www.viddler.com/clintonschool/videos/334/ronjanec wrote:The Catholic priests are kind of a special case here, and are basically forced to go against their human nature to never have any sex.
It's totally not just Catholics. Here's a few examples of sex crimes by clergy from various religions... http://clergygonewild.com/sex-abuse
wolfhnd wrote:FBI’s Uniform Crime Report
■In 2010, an estimated 1,246,248 violent crimes occurred nationwide, a decrease of 6.0 percent from the 2009 estimate.
■When considering 5- and 10-year trends, the 2010 estimated violent crime total was 13.2 percent below the 2006 level and 13.4 percent below the 2001 level.
■There were an estimated 403.6 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010.
■Aggravated assaults accounted for the highest number of violent crimes reported to law enforcement at 62.5 percent. Robbery comprised 29.5 percent of violent crimes, forcible rape accounted for 6.8 percent, and murder accounted for 1.2 percent of estimated violent crimes in 2010.
■Information collected regarding type of weapon showed that firearms were used in 67.5 percent of the Nation’s murders, 41.4 percent of robberies, and 20.6 percent of aggravated assaults. (Weapons data are not collected for forcible rape.)
Looking at the statistics for violent crime it's clear that rape is just one expression of the prevalence of violence in society. The question becomes is rape a special kind of violence that needs to be address separately? To me it looks like rape and aggravated assault result in murder at a surprisingly low rate. This tends to suggest that the level of violence that offenders are willing to engage in is somehow limited. The level of violence may be controlled through instinct or social orientation or both. Increasing the populations sensitivity to violence may or may not reduce the frequency of rape but I generally think that holistic solutions are preferable to addressing specific malignancies. Surely raising the general level of civility would not be a bad thing.
CanadysPeak wrote:You are (I think) much younger than I; what is your take on that question?
Sisyphus wrote:CanadysPeak wrote:You are (I think) much younger than I; what is your take on that question?
I'll see if I can find another video link for that. It's a really good video. In the video, Katz makes a lot of good points, and I have to agree with him.
We need to not think of rape, or any other violence against women as a "women's issue". It's really a men's issue. The majority of violence against women is committed by men. Less than 1% of rape is committed by women. Instead of thinking of violence against women as just a "learned behavior", we should think about it as a taught behavior.
The common perpetrator of violence against women is not some mentally ill person, psychopath, or psychologically different from what we would consider a "normal guy". If you look at the statistics, the victim usually knows the perpetrator. To think of men who commit violence against women as some crazy "other guy", it distances ourselves (men) from the situation. It makes us less likely to question our own behavior, or ask questions about the society we live in, because it's those "other guys" that are the problem.
If another man we know, displays some abusive and sexist behavior towards women, we need to step in and let him know that it's not alright to do that. There are also other, more subtle factors in society and ourselves that need to be looked at, but they're not as easy to recognize because we're so used to them. This is where the term "rape culture" comes from.
This topic seems to make a lot of men defensive because it's difficult to critique ourselves like that. The ego often gets in the way, and makes guys hear something else from what is being said, or not listen at all. But, it's not enough to say, "I'm not a rapist.", or, "I don't beat my wife." We, as men, need to be doing a lot more.
Anyway, I think Katz explains all this a lot better in the video. I'll try to find another link for you. Here's a couple other articles you might find interesting.
How to prevent rape without blaming victims
STUDY: More Than Half Of Black Girls Are Sexually Assaulted
wolfhnd wrote:There should be no women's issues only human issues.
CanadysPeak wrote:You're right in saying that's it's difficult to critically examine our beliefs. When I started reading your post, I smugly told myself that I'm not like that. Then I got a little uneasy. I do forget that it's a men's issue. Thanks for getting under my skin.
Well, okay. Maybe that's true in a way, but I don't think that's going to be productive. The problem here is mostly caused by men. If we call it "human issues", that's going to take some of the burden off of men.
According to a 2009 report from the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services, that year 27.3 percent of child deaths resulting from abuse were perpetrated by the mother, compared to only 14.8 percent of fathers. Mothers and fathers acting together accounted for 22.5 percent of child deaths. According to these same statistics only 2.3 percent of fatalities were committed by a parent’s male partner.
wolfhnd wrote:While males are responsible for most of the physical violence in the world most of them were trained by females during their formative years.
So, you think women train boys to be physically violent?
wolfhnd wrote:While woman may not train boys to be violent they do appear to be dispassionately violent to their children.
wolfhnd wrote:Which illustrates the power of hormonal influences on behavior and how unlikely it is that encouraging males to develop a more "female attitude" will alleviate the problem.
wolfhnd wrote:Apes are inherently violent and as apes humans share that characteristic with other apes. It is through culture that we learn to act responsibly and passing on that culture is the responsibility of both sexes. In a patriarchal society the responsibility to make children civilized unfortunately falls primarily on females.
wolfhnd wrote:Feminist theory tells us that in a patriarchy all social mechanisms reproduce and exert male dominance over women. Male dominance however does not necessarily imply that rape is condoned. If you exclude rape within marriage patriarchy often is violently apposed to rape. The theory that rape is a product of patriarchy is uncalibrated by evidence at best.
wolfhnd wrote:Even in a matriarchy rape is likely to exist if there are marginalized males with weak social bonds and limited sexual experience. Full cooperation between the sexes is the best way forward in addressing sexual violence. I take exception to the idea that the creation of "woman issues" is progress and that men in general should take primary responsibility for sexual aggression. Sexual aggression is everyones responsibility to alleviate. Sexually neutral civility and equality is the best answer.
So, the culture of responsibility is the responsibility of both sexes, but teaching how to be civilized is mostly the responsibility of women? Huh?
The statistics you gave don't show that at all
Yet, here we are in the patriarchy, with less than 1% of rape being committed by women.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mosuo-On ... 6321.shtmlSex is practiced freely. They only have to choose a partner to spend the night and only incest is forbidden. Typical marriage and fidelity are something like heresy. Obviously, they don't seem to present signs of jealousy. The western love tragedies of revengeful and victimized lovers make them laugh. They think the visitor is kidding them "How is it possible to end your precious life for something so banal like sex?"
The burden of responsibility has been placed solely on women for far too long. It's time that men started taking responsibility too.
wolfhnd wrote:Again you missed the point, which was to show that despite popular belief that violence is learned behavior there is a strong hormonal or instinctual influence. It also shows that hormonal differences between the sexes affect the way violence is expressed.
wolfhnd wrote:Woman in a patriarch tend to use sex to exert control having been denied full membership in society.
wolfhnd wrote:You have notice that the criminal code largely created by men and enforced by men has severe penalties for sexual assault?
wolfhnd wrote:Feminism is unnecessarily divisive and excessively critical of males.
While the social construction of femininity has been widely examined, the dominant role of masculinity has until recently remained largely invisible. Tough Guise is the first educational video geared toward college and high school students to systematically examine the relationship between pop-cultural imagery and the social construction of masculine identities in the U.S. at the dawn of the 21st century.
In this innovative and wide-ranging analysis, Jackson Katz argues that widespread violence in American society, including the tragic school shootings in Littleton, Colorado, Jonesboro, Arkansas, and elsewhere, needs to be understood as part of an ongoing crisis in masculinity.
This exciting new media literacy tool -- utilizing racially diverse subject matter and examples -- will enlighten and provoke students (both males and females) to evaluate their own participation in the culture of contemporary masculinity.
ronjanec wrote:People who go to church, temple or mosque on a regular basis very rarely rape anyone.
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