Do societies posses Identity, Subjectivity, Qualia?

Anthropology, History, Psychology, Sociology and other related areas.

Re: Do societies posses Identity, Subjectivity, Qualia?

Postby mtbturtle on November 18th, 2015, 1:42 pm 

So what's the difference between societies and computers in terms of possible consciousness, such that for the former the answer is no and for the later many said yes?
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Re: Do societies posses Identity, Subjectivity, Qualia?

Postby Serpent on November 18th, 2015, 1:49 pm 

mtbturtle » November 18th, 2015, 12:42 pm wrote:So what's the difference between societies and computers in terms of possible consciousness, such that for the former the answer is no and for the later many said yes?


The differences are many and various, such that they can't even be considered as similar categories, but in both cases, the verdict regarding consciousness would have to be No. At this time.
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Re: Do societies posses Identity, Subjectivity, Qualia?

Postby neuro on November 18th, 2015, 3:23 pm 

Ladies and gentlemen,
I am absolutely delighted.
Thank you all.

Braininvat » November 14th, 2015, 5:25 pm wrote:Just for clarity: is Neuro asking if a society can actually be conscious in a literal way, akin to Gaia being a planetary mind? Or are we just exploring the boundaries of an analogy here?


I can't answer to this question.
I was simply looking for a debate among people who come from different backgrounds and perspectives.
And I find it quite interesting.

It is difficult to answer BIV's question because none of us knows what to "be conscious in a literal way" means.
I believe the best we can do is to define some necessary (or possible sufficient) features.
So, there will always be a margin of analogy, and the whole debate can be seen as "exploring the boundaries of an analogy".
What's the difference between a strong analogy and equality?
One usually defines such difference (arbitrarily, a priori) and then says "it's the same", or "it's similar, it's analogous, but it's not the same".
It depends on the definition of the necessary features.

One thing that moved me to open this thread is the apparent relative independence that Art's history, or social organization, display, as if such things evolved independently of the history of the individuals that compose the society, building on previous cultural productions in a quite unpredictable way, carrying over and rediscovering meanings, references, images, archetypes (am I allowed to use this word? may I even say "memes", though it's no more politically correct?).

Well I don't actually know.
I find it particularly pleasant to read all these suggestions and opinions, and feed them in my brain to see whether something interesting comes out
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Re: Do societies posses Identity, Subjectivity, Qualia?

Postby wolfhnd on November 18th, 2015, 9:50 pm 

mtbturtle » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:42 pm wrote:So what's the difference between societies and computers in terms of possible consciousness, such that for the former the answer is no and for the later many said yes?


I know I'm repeating myself but why not consider the issue in terms of how conscious?
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