How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

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How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Dawgfaninca on July 12th, 2018, 1:27 pm 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/water-allergy-girl-reaches-21st-58672

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160915-the-woman-who-is-allergic-to-water

http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2014-07-10/this-is-barbara-from-hartlepool-she-is-allergic-to-water/

All of these sources they say they not only have an allergic reaction to water on the skin but they have an allergic anaphylaxis reaction internally if they drink water which rules this out as just a skin condition causing non-allergic reactions such as hives.

The first one was born with the allergy, but the others suddenly became allergic. (Not surprising, I suddenly became allergic to peanuts and milk when I was 10 and 15 even though I had no problems with them before that.)

Do they have to get their salivary glands removed? Or take pills to stop the production of saliva? Because if not, then they have H2O molecules always in their mouth and throat.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Braininvat on July 12th, 2018, 1:49 pm 

And in every cell in their body, which makes the condition all the more puzzling.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Dawgfaninca on July 12th, 2018, 1:51 pm 

There may be some H2O inside of cells but the receptors to trigger allergic responses are located outside of the cells.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Serpent on July 12th, 2018, 2:36 pm 

There is water in every food and and drink; we can't ingest anything mummified or petrified.
The reaction can't be to individual H2O molecules, or they couldn't eat or drink at all.

If you remove the salivary glands, the person can't swallow, or even speak intelligibly; they would very quickly succumb to any number of pathogenic micro-organisms that are normally washed away by saliva.
It seems mucus and sputum are not a problem for these women - just sweat and tears, and I think it's impossible to disable all sweat glands without killing the person.

How can one be born allergic to water? Shouldn't they have been killed by their own amniotic fluid?
And should someone with such a disorder really be planning to procreate?
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Dawgfaninca on July 12th, 2018, 2:39 pm 

They do drink but they survive on orange juice, milk and diet cola, which their body tolerates. It says so in the articles.

However if they take a sip of water they could die from their throat closing up and blistering.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby wolfhnd on July 12th, 2018, 4:57 pm 

Interesting
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby zetreque on July 12th, 2018, 5:50 pm 

Dawgfaninca » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:39 am wrote:They do drink but they survive on orange juice, milk and diet cola, which their body tolerates. It says so in the articles.

However if they take a sip of water they could die from their throat closing up and blistering.


Is it me or does anyone else realize those drinks contain mostly water... What has the world come to?
And yet not that many people protest or fight the corporations poisoning our planet in various ways making more and more people's immune system hyper sensitive.

A thought about water vs the drinks listed. Difference in pH.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Serpent on July 12th, 2018, 7:07 pm 

[They do drink but they survive on orange juice, milk and diet cola, which their body tolerates. It says so in the articles.

Is it me or does anyone else realize those drinks contain mostly water...

Yes, I was responding to that. Milk and juice are mostly water, as are soups, and foods of all kind contain various amounts of water, in combination with other substances. Taking only small sips and nibbles isn't enough to sustain an active adult, never mind allowing a child to grow.
That

A thought about water vs the drinks listed. Difference in pH.

That can't be enough of an explanation, since distilled water is neutral, while most tap water is slightly alkaline, and so are many foods. Juices are strongly acidic; milk, only just on the acid side. We might conclude that all they need do is add a little citric or lactic acid to everything. Seems too easy.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Braininvat on July 12th, 2018, 9:09 pm 

It is important to rule out psychological factors when dealing with something like this where some facts appear to contradict others. Several noticed that the tolerated beverages are mostly water. This one fact should give the diagnostician cause for caution before going on some extended safari in search of allergens that lurk in purified water. I don't know what's going on with them but I know that Ockham's razor is your friend.

Also, a source that's not TV news or other pop media would be most welcome, maybe a journal article.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Dawgfaninca on July 13th, 2018, 4:14 am 

Braininvat » July 12th, 2018, 9:09 pm wrote:It is important to rule out psychological factors when dealing with something like this where some facts appear to contradict others. Several noticed that the tolerated beverages are mostly water. This one fact should give the diagnostician cause for caution before going on some extended safari in search of allergens that lurk in purified water. I don't know what's going on with them but I know that Ockham's razor is your friend.

Also, a source that's not TV news or other pop media would be most welcome, maybe a journal article.


Apparently the 'tolerated' beverages still bother them but not as much. Someone on Quora who said he was a biologist suggested the additional stuff like carbonation affects the interactivity of the H2O molecule with cellular receptors.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby BadgerJelly on July 13th, 2018, 6:07 am 

They probably eat shit and it messes up immune system causing allergies to manifest. I remember Jamie Oliver spotting this in schools where kids stopped using inhalers, etc literally 24hrs after changing diet.

Needless to say biology is complex. What will work well for some could likely kill another. From many cases I’ve heard of going either vegan or carnivore seems to help many people - although the mixed results of these diets means caution is needed given the case by case basis - then there is the factor of gut bacteria (something I just read about where a claim is being suggested about reducing the long term effects of autism by alterign gut bacteria!)

AND like Biv points out there is the psychological factor. Psychosomatics are not to be taken lightly either.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Serpent on July 13th, 2018, 9:17 am 

In the cases of adolescent onset, I would certainly consider both psychosomatic cause and chemical interaction as factors. It could be that these children were exposed to something in the air (an industrial town?) or home insulation, paint, or, obviously, the local drinking water that built up over time and finally triggered a cascade reaction.
It's the one who was born allergic that really has me stumped.

Wam! Are these three people from the same area? The mother may have been exposed to a mining byproduct or factory effluent that nobody's admitting.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Dawgfaninca on July 13th, 2018, 6:49 pm 

Serpent » July 13th, 2018, 9:17 am wrote:In the cases of adolescent onset, I would certainly consider both psychosomatic cause and chemical interaction as factors. It could be that these children were exposed to something in the air (an industrial town?) or home insulation, paint, or, obviously, the local drinking water that built up over time and finally triggered a cascade reaction.
It's the one who was born allergic that really has me stumped.

Wam! Are these three people from the same area? The mother may have been exposed to a mining byproduct or factory effluent that nobody's admitting.


It's not so much the cause.. but if they're reacting to H2O molecules themselves (IgE antibodies produced against H2O)
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Dawgfaninca on July 14th, 2018, 12:04 am 

Has anyone heard of water clusters? Some of the structures of those can be hundreds of molecules big https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cluster [nofollow]

I'm wondering if for instance tap water (and other 'undisturbed' water) could have lots of these water clusters and if they're large enough for IgE receptors to 'recognize' them? For instance does the body see a water cluster as separate molecules or one huge molecule?
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Serpent on July 14th, 2018, 1:58 am 

Dawgfaninca » July 13th, 2018, 11:04 pm wrote:Has anyone heard of water clusters? Some of the structures of those can be hundreds of molecules big https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cluster [nofollow]

I'm wondering if for instance tap water (and other 'undisturbed' water) could have lots of these water clusters and if they're large enough for IgE receptors to 'recognize' them? For instance does the body see a water cluster as separate molecules or one huge molecule?

I don't see how tapwater can be 'undisturbed'. But it doesn't matter, since the allergic people have tried distilled and de-ionized versions.
And we're no closer to understanding why tears bring on the reaction, but snot doesn't; why milk is okay to drink and fruit is okay to eat. Or why amniotic fluid didn't scald the baby.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Dawgfaninca on July 14th, 2018, 2:02 am 

Serpent » July 14th, 2018, 1:58 am wrote:
Dawgfaninca » July 13th, 2018, 11:04 pm wrote:Has anyone heard of water clusters? Some of the structures of those can be hundreds of molecules big https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cluster [nofollow]

I'm wondering if for instance tap water (and other 'undisturbed' water) could have lots of these water clusters and if they're large enough for IgE receptors to 'recognize' them? For instance does the body see a water cluster as separate molecules or one huge molecule?

I don't see how tapwater can be 'undisturbed'. But it doesn't matter, since the allergic people have tried distilled and de-ionized versions.
And we're no closer to understanding why tears bring on the reaction, but snot doesn't; why milk is okay to drink and fruit is okay to eat. Or why amniotic fluid didn't scald the baby.


Maybe the other stuff in milk prevents those water clusters from forming as much compared to plain water?
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby zetreque on July 14th, 2018, 12:10 pm 

excess water could be mobilizing a toxin that the person was poisoned by.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby Serpent on July 14th, 2018, 12:41 pm 

That's the line i was thinking along: that there must be some critical amount of water on the same spot at the same time. Seems okay if it's mixed with other substances, so there may also be a masking effect from large molecules of carbohydrate, protein and fat - which would explain the relative harmlessness of milk and mucus.

But still, that toxin must be in the lining cells of the whole body - skin, soft palate, eosophagus, stomach - presumably trachea and bronchi - but not in the organs or connective tissues. That's some feat for a chemical to retains its toxicity in the body over decades of metabolic processes. It would have to be a normally inert substance, perhaps a heavy metal, yet still reactive to water - presumably only in the presence of air, since the reaction doesn't seem to happen in the kidneys....
... but then, how come she can breathe? In England?
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby zetreque on July 27th, 2018, 9:08 pm 

I was just browsing another website and someone mentioned a classmate who claims to be allergic to water as well. I really think there are some crazy toxins out there making people's immune systems hypersensitive. I think an intake of water is allowing more of an already overactive reaction to take place. It's just intensifying an existing problem.
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Re: How do H2O allergic people deal with saliva (99.5% H2O)?

Postby mitchellmckain on July 28th, 2018, 2:25 am 

While aquagenic urticaria does not depend on the temperature of the water, it is highly dependent on the salinity of the water. People with this condition can usually swim in the ocean without difficulty. Since the salinity of the water in the human body is comparable to that of the ocean, this should answer the majority of this poster's questions and obvious incredulity.
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