Is spontaneity just another name for unknown variables?

Interdisciplinary science discussions. Also, if you are not sure where to place your thread, please post it here.

Is spontaneity just another name for unknown variables?

Postby edy420 on January 19th, 2017, 9:55 pm 

Abiogenisis is a sponteinious phenomenon.

But this theory was devised when we were the only form of life in the entire universe.
Stephan Hawkins likes to think that there is other life forms in the universe and I do too.

The more life forms we find in different places, the less that spontaneity becomes relevant.
Life didn't happen by chance.

Abiogenisis is simply a process of turning inanimate objects into a living form.
If the conditions are right, then life will occur.

Is the term spontaneity as it's used in science simply, unknown variables?
User avatar
edy420
Active Member
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Location: Fergusson st, Tokoroa, NZ


Re: Is spontaneity just another name for unknown variables?

Postby Scott Mayers on January 20th, 2017, 2:42 am 

"Spontaneous" means both sudden and unpredictable (or, by some, without actual cause).
Scott Mayers
Member
 
Posts: 326
Joined: 04 Aug 2015


Re: Is spontaneity just another name for unknown variables?

Postby mitchellmckain on February 2nd, 2017, 3:19 am 

edy420 » January 19th, 2017, 8:55 pm wrote:Is spontaneity just another name for unknown variables?

No. However much the majority of "spontaneity" may be accounted for by unknown variables they are not the same thing because it has been physically proven that sometimes there are no hidden variables.


edy420 » January 19th, 2017, 8:55 pm wrote:Abiogenisis is a sponteinious phenomenon.

But this theory was devised when we were the only form of life in the entire universe.

Incorrect. The presence of other forms of life is irrelevant because pangenesis only defers the the problem of where life came from rather than answering the question. In this sense pangenesis is a non-answer to the question of where life came from and instead only answers where did life on this planet come from.

edy420 » January 19th, 2017, 8:55 pm wrote:Stephan Hawkins likes to think that there is other life forms in the universe and I do too.

Whereas I have no preferences on the matter. I think the same facts/calculations which make it highly likely there is life elsewhere in the universe also makes it unlikely that there will be any contact between these different forms of life. Considering how long it took life to develop on this planet (4 billion years), the 13.7 billion year lifespan of the universe doesn't leave so much time for high probabilities that life developed elsewhere so long before ours or in great density. Then the facts of relativity separates all the possible origins of life so completely and effectively they might as well be in different universes at this point in time.


edy420 » January 19th, 2017, 8:55 pm wrote:The more life forms we find in different places, the less that spontaneity becomes relevant.
Life didn't happen by chance.

Abiogenisis is simply a process of turning inanimate objects into a living form.
If the conditions are right, then life will occur.

Is the term spontaneity as it's used in science simply, unknown variables?


Ah yes! I see sort of what you are getting at. Spontaneous processes require the right conditions so the fact that it is spontaneous leaves us with the question of why the conditions are right. You are correct in that sense even though you are wrong to equate spontaneity with unknown variables.
User avatar
mitchellmckain
Active Member
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: 27 Oct 2016


Re: Is spontaneity just another name for unknown variables?

Postby edy420 on February 8th, 2017, 4:55 am 

With Abiogensis, what effect does radiation have on its "spontaneity"
Solar radiation, thermal microwaves, radio waves etc.

Does gravity have an effect or astrology, electrical charge, the negative energy in the universe or even God?

How do we ignore all these possible effects when we can't prove they have no effect and are not an unknown variable?

Science is not advanced enough to rule out every possibility, but it's stubborn to lump an infinite number of possibilities into one catagory that is simply ignored.
Besides we can't even recreate abiogenisis to start testing any effects on the outcome when testing alternate possible variables.

As for comparing us to alien civilisations, the world as we know it would be very different had Nicola Tesla and Edison been born 2000 years ago. We'd probably be more advanced by about... 2000 years.
User avatar
edy420
Active Member
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Location: Fergusson st, Tokoroa, NZ


Re: Is spontaneity just another name for unknown variables?

Postby Eclogite on February 8th, 2017, 10:15 am 

edy420 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:55 am wrote:Abiogenisis is a sponteinious phenomenon.
Is it? Who do you think says so?

I'm not entirely clear what you mean by spontaneous. Could you give a concise and precise definition?

edy420 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:55 am wrote:But this theory was devised when we were the only form of life in the entire universe.
Stephan Hawkins likes to think that there is other life forms in the universe and I do too.
Are you asserting that neither Haldane nor Oparin considered it was possible there were other life forms? I rather doubt that. If you do believe that is the case I should like to see some citations backing it up.

edy420 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:55 am wrote:The more life forms we find in different places, the less that spontaneity becomes relevant.
Life didn't happen by chance.
It looks as if you are equating spontaneity with randomness. As to the emboldened sentence, a substantial number of exobiologists agree with you. (Of course a significant number, though probably fewer, disagree with you.)

edy420 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:55 am wrote:Abiogenisis is simply a process of turning inanimate objects into a living form.
If the conditions are right, then life will occur.
I don't know that I can agree with the adverb "simply".

And since we don't know what the conditions are, we cannot know how common they are, so we cannot know how common life is.

edy420 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:55 am wrote:Is the term spontaneity as it's used in science simply, unknown variables?
Until you tell me how you think spontaneity is used in science I am unable to answer that.
Eclogite
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Location: Around and about



Return to Anything Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests