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bangstrom » April 25th, 2017, 4:41 am wrote:Besides space, the remains would be time and gravity. Gravity is often described as curved spacetime so curved spacetime (aka ‘gravity’) is what would remain. It is hard to visualize how either space or time can curve so I prefer to think of gravity as shorter space and slower time since lengths appear shorter and clocks tick slower in a gravitational field. In other words, take away EMR and spacetime remains.
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someguy1 » April 25th, 2017, 5:39 pm wrote:Ok so what happens when you remove gravity? Isn't the latest big idea that "nothing" implies the laws of physics plus quantum foam? What happens when you remove those?
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handmade » April 25th, 2017, 7:18 pm wrote:
How can gravity remain when space apparently has no mass?
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BurtJordaan » April 26th, 2017, 12:57 am wrote:In Newton's days, 'empty space' was filled with the aether. In Einstein's days, 'empty space' became de Sitter spacetime, being curved by the cosmological constant. Modern physics fills the de Sitter spacetime with a "quantum froth" or "foam" that someguy1 was talking about, but presently nobody knows how the two (de Sitter and quantum effects) are to be fitted together.
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bangstrom » April 26th, 2017, 2:48 am wrote:handmade » April 25th, 2017, 7:18 pm wrote:
How can gravity remain when space apparently has no mass?
The question involved removing EM emissions from space. I assume that to mean that matter remains so we can still observe the effects of gravity.
Correction: Gravity would remain but we would be blind to the effects.
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someguy1 » April 25th, 2017, 7:24 pm wrote:Space can't be nothing, it has many properties according to Einstein. If space is subject to the laws of physics, then it's not nothing. And the laws of physics aren't nothing.
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handmade » April 27th, 2017, 7:23 pm wrote:someguy1 » April 25th, 2017, 7:24 pm wrote:Space can't be nothing, it has many properties according to Einstein. If space is subject to the laws of physics, then it's not nothing. And the laws of physics aren't nothing.
How is space subject to the laws of physics without physicality?
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handmade » 28 Apr 2017, 03:17 wrote:Fills with ''quantum froth''? suggesting it was empty to be filled. Space-time curvature is not necessarily a curving of space itself, I do not think anywhere does Einstein suggest that it was space itself that was curving.
Absolute space by Newton is seemingly logical sense, to remove all matter and EMR from space must only leave space (a perfect vacuum).
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someguy1 » April 27th, 2017, 9:14 pm wrote:handmade » April 27th, 2017, 7:23 pm wrote:someguy1 » April 25th, 2017, 7:24 pm wrote:Space can't be nothing, it has many properties according to Einstein. If space is subject to the laws of physics, then it's not nothing. And the laws of physics aren't nothing.
How is space subject to the laws of physics without physicality?
I'm afraid I don't understand the question. Whatever space is, it's subject to the laws of physics. To me, "nothing" would not be subject to anything at all. It could not be affected by physical laws. It's nothing. A thing that is affected by physical law can not be nothing.
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BurtJordaan » April 28th, 2017, 12:20 am wrote:handmade » 28 Apr 2017, 03:17 wrote:Fills with ''quantum froth''? suggesting it was empty to be filled. Space-time curvature is not necessarily a curving of space itself, I do not think anywhere does Einstein suggest that it was space itself that was curving.
Absolute space by Newton is seemingly logical sense, to remove all matter and EMR from space must only leave space (a perfect vacuum).
In quantum gravity parlance, 'empty space' was always filled with this "froth", not from some time onward.
You are right that empty de Sitter space does not have to be spatially curved, but it could be. De Sitter spacetime is empty and always curved, having an inherent energy density component of the cosmological constant. Minkowski spacetime is a flat, special case of de Sitter spacetime, with vanishingly small cosmological constant energy component in a small region of space.
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handmade » 28 Apr 2017, 08:09 wrote:When people use the word filled, they are suggesting empty to begin with. I would prefer to say the Quantum foam permeates directly proportionate to the amount of space .
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vivian maxine » April 28th, 2017, 7:16 am wrote:handmaid, right or wrong - who am I to say? - I like your down-to-earth common sensical approach.
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BurtJordaan » April 28th, 2017, 11:43 am wrote:handmade » 28 Apr 2017, 08:09 wrote:When people use the word filled, they are suggesting empty to begin with. I would prefer to say the Quantum foam permeates directly proportionate to the amount of space .
I think 'permeate' is actually a worse word, by its common as well as scientific meaning. If the whole idea of quantum foam is correct, it must have filled all of space from the beginning, whatever 'beginning' might mean...
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handmade » April 20th, 2017, 7:18 am wrote:If we could remove all the EMR from the observable Universe, what would the space that is left be made of?
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doogles » May 14th, 2018, 4:45 pm wrote:Handmade, there was a thread called 'The theory of everything' a year or so back in which I asked exactly the same question you've posed. It seemed silly to me that no research had actually been conducted on this 'nothingness' that pervaded everything. I did not get any satisfactory answers from form members, but I did nose around and discovered this video.
If the video information is correct, then the so-called 'empty space' has some interesting properties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3xLuZNKhlY .
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Event Horizon » May 14th, 2018, 5:38 pm wrote:The existence of non-existence is a bit paradoxical, just something I ponder on. But spacetime is not nothingness. It's spacetime. Whatever that is. Just thinkin'. Trying to. That's some deep stuff.
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DragonFly » May 15th, 2018, 12:38 am wrote:Space (as well as time) is not a container that 'something' is put into, nor is spacetime a container. The 'something' is spacetime, as per Einstein's GR equation of the gravitational field and matter dynamically affecting each other.
Quantum gravity theory is the next step—to go beyond spacetime, for what we call 'space' and 'time' are emergent and so they wouldn't appear in quantum gravity, although quantum gravity theories must show how they can emerge. 'Things', too, would go away, too, replaced by relational events/processes (a tree is a long event; as is a mountain or a stone).
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