high price for cheating

[Athena]

Did you ever think about ordering a cup for water in a fast food place and filling it with soda? I know I thought about doing that, but stop short of putting a little squirt of lemonade in a cup and then filling it with water. It is healthier than the soda for sure. Anyway, this is what can happen if you do cheat. Like he is in jail and is charged with a felony!

http://www.dailybreeze.com/latestnews/c ... fills-cup-

[CanadysPeak]

Did you ever think about ordering a cup for water in a fast food place and filling it with soda? I know I thought about doing that, but stop short of putting a little squirt of lemonade in a cup and then filling it with water. It is healthier than the soda for sure. Anyway, this is what can happen if you do cheat. Like he is in jail and is charged with a felony!

http://www.dailybreeze.com/latestnews/c ... fills-cup-

The felony charge against him is that he is a repeat offender (habitual criminal). Without form, he would have only been charged with a misdemeanor. What would you do with habitual criminals if you had the opportunity?

[Athena]

There are habitual criminals in my family. I think we should have a fenced community for these folks, and make it as normal as possible, with males and females. Punishing them makes as much sense of punishing a lion for being lion. They are as they are. Change might be possible, and if a prison community were more like a normal one, we could better judge if someone is ready to live in a less unrestricted community or not.
Our present system is about dumb.

In the case of the man in the story, looks like he could be deported to Naples. It would cost a lot less to send him back home than keep him locked up a year.

[CanadysPeak]

There are habitual criminals in my family. I think we should have a fenced community for these folks, and make it as normal as possible, with males and females. Punishing them makes as much sense of punishing a lion for being lion. They are as they are. Change might be possible, and if a prison community were more like a normal one, we could better judge if someone is ready to live in a less unrestricted community or not.
Our present system is about dumb.

In the case of the man in the story, looks like he could be deported to Naples. It would cost a lot less to send him back home than keep him locked up a year.

I may be wrong about this (I really, really don't understand Florida), but I am skeptical about deporting someone to Naples, Florida. Perhaps Moscow, VA or Mars, PA might be better?

[Athena]

Laugh, I thought it was Naples, India. Of course the man could be retarded or otherwise mentally impaired, and in such case, a supervised living situation may be appropriate. I think the state run asylums we once had, are a good idea if run properly. I think this is a far more humane way to deal with people who have cognitive challenges, than the criminal justice system. A friend has an adult foster care home and I help her it occasionally.

But I posted the article for all those normal people who might be tempted to cheat. Seriously am I the only one who wondered about getting away with a free cup of pop? I haven't tried because my conscience torments me when I do something wrong, but I wondered what would happen.

We have a store in town that still has the pulleys for bringing items people requested, from the upper floor where it was stored, to the front counter. Of course this system of protecting items from would be dishonest people is no longer used, but the other extreme of putting tempting things in easy reach, may not be too wise. Especially putting candy in a child's reach is just mean.

[CanadysPeak]

Laugh, I thought it was Naples, India. Of course the man could be retarded or otherwise mentally impaired, and in such case, a supervised living situation may be appropriate. I think the state run asylums we once had, are a good idea if run properly. I think this is a far more humane way to deal with people who have cognitive challenges, than the criminal justice system. A friend has an adult foster care home and I help her it occasionally.

But I posted the article for all those normal people who might be tempted to cheat. Seriously am I the only one who wondered about getting away with a free cup of pop? I haven't tried because my conscience torments me when I do something wrong, but I wondered what would happen.

We have a store in town that still has the pulleys for bringing items people requested, from the upper floor where it was stored, to the front counter. Of course this system of protecting items from would be dishonest people is no longer used, but the other extreme of putting tempting things in easy reach, may not be too wise. Especially putting candy in a child's reach is just mean.

For what it's worth, persons such as I, who get along well in the world despite our low IQs, dislike the perjorative term "retarded".

I remember well the pulley systems, and the pneumatic tubes, and the dumbwaiters. They had nothing to do with honesty, or lack thereof.

[Watson]

There is the constant thought that someone is watching. Or karma.

Isn't this another example of someone escelating the situation to an unnecessary level? McDonalds isn't going to miss $1, or the $o.10 of product. Making a fuss over it is much more costly than doing nothing. The manager should have just ignored it. Now the police, lawyers, courts and prison are all involved, and so now what is the cost.

Yes there is the principle involved. The fact he is a repeat offender makes even less sense to me, given to true cost of making a fuss. Seems like all involved have their priorities out of alignment.

[CanadysPeak]

There is the constant thought that someone is watching. Or karma.

Isn't this another example of someone escelating the situation to an unnecessary level? McDonalds isn't going to miss $1, or the $o.10 of product. Making a fuss over it is much more costly than doing nothing. The manager should have just ignored it. Now the police, lawyers, courts and prison are all involved, and so now what is the cost.

Yes there is the principle involved. The fact he is a repeat offender makes even less sense to me, given to true cost of making a fuss. Seems like all involved have their priorities out of alignment.

Athena makes a good point that there ought to be something to do with folks like Abaire - perhaps a state hospital or a workhouse. It seems a shame to waste a prison cell on this poor guy. Since this was Florida, couldn't the manager have just shot him, citing stand your ground?

[Watson]

I don't see mental capacity as the issue. The manager could/should have said to this or any other person, next time you pay for it, please. In most cases this would be enough. Athena, would never go back. But maybe Abaire does come back, so just don't give him the cup. He'll learn from that.

Although if he really does need help, maybe he got locked up because that is the only option for authorities in this case.

[Athena]

I don't see mental capacity as the issue. The manager could/should have said to this or any other person, next time you pay for it, please. In most cases this would be enough. Athena, would never go back. But maybe Abaire does come back, so just don't give him the cup. He'll learn from that.

Although if he really does need help, maybe he got locked up because that is the only option for authorities in this case.

Hey, you are right! I was friends with one of those homeless alcoholics we all wish were not on the streets for various reasons. He seriously had to have his beer, because at that stage of alcoholism, the alcoholic can die without the alcohol or medical help. Anyway, he really, really wanted to be the good guy, but he also really had to have his beer, so he attempted shop lifting one. The manager suspended him from the store, just like mods do. You play by the rules or you don't play here. That does make a whole more sense than involving the whole legal system and very costly jail time.

[CanadysPeak]

Watson and Athena,

Certainly I think it a wrong to simply send this man to prison for a lousy cup of pop. It raises the question, however, of where you would draw the line. Is a $5 theft to be overlooked? What about $10? Where is the line and how do you define that line?

Further, Florida once sent thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of people to prison for the "crime" of not having a job or a substantial bank account. Where were your voices then? Or, was there some substantial difference between those "criminals" and this poor lad?

[Athena]

No, a theft is not to be over looked. But I saw how effective it was for the store to tell my homeless, alcoholic friend he could not enter the store. That really hurt him. We are talking the closest food store in miles, and the best place to turn in those cans and bottles, to buy beer.

I have seen the same thing work with other people. In fact our down town has an exclusion zone, and trouble makers are not allowed in that zone. This is not a perfect solution, I much, much rather have education for good citizens, but we don't. Now we have a lot of offensive behavior and criminal behavior, and we have to do something. Our court system, jails and prisons are too jammed and tax payers are paying too much for all of this. It is just pragmatic to use exclusion when it is petty theft.

[CanadysPeak]

No, a theft is not to be over looked. But I saw how effective it was for the store to tell my homeless, alcoholic friend he could not enter the store. That really hurt him. We are talking the closest food store in miles, and the best place to turn in those cans and bottles, to buy beer.

I have seen the same thing work with other people. In fact our down town has an exclusion zone, and trouble makers are not allowed in that zone. This is not a perfect solution, I much, much rather have education for good citizens, but we don't. Now we have a lot of offensive behavior and criminal behavior, and we have to do something. Our court system, jails and prisons are too jammed and tax payers are paying too much for all of this. It is just pragmatic to use exclusion when it is petty theft.

Holy Moley! I thought Oregon was supposed to be full of free spirits doing their own thing. This Public Safety Zone could be the most right wing measures I've ever seen. What happens if people who work at one of these fancy shops decide they want to go on strike? Certainly a strike, if it is to suceed, impedes lawful activities. And, I really get a bad feeling that downtown got a whole lot Whiter with this zone. What prompted this? Were stores being looted by drunks? Nuns ravaged by panhandlers? Who will they exclude next? Why not gays and lesbians? Or what about those Yakima Indians? Can I get a "Due Process" from the Deacon's bench?

[Athena]

I love your sense of humor. Hum the story of down town.

We had the most beautiful mall ever. It wasn't stores in a huge building, but some and large shops, and mini parks where parents and children could play, and tables with mostly older men playing checkers with younger men. There were beautiful fountains. On a nice sunny day it was like heaven. I would drive in from out of town to spend the day at the mall with my children, and have lunch at Woolworths. That is a good memory.

Then came the recession and shops closed. In the 1970-1980 recession things got really bad here, for many years. the mall kind of died and some idiots decided it would be better to tear out of parks and open the streets to traffic, and put parking meters everywhere. Soon the only people hanging around down town were the young kids who seemed to lack a good understanding of good manners, and probably drug users? The businesses of struggled ever since. We have two enclosed malls with free parking, and idiots blocked a main street to the downtown mall, causing the traffic flow to go on the freeway to the new mall.

We are a small city, right? It is so obvious if you want power to zone the city for your best interest and determine how to use federal grants, etc. you become a city counselor. These folks can drive businesses they don't want out, and prevent them from moving it. They used a federal grant for the poor, to refurbish privately own properties and claimed this would give the poor jobs. Like we needed that money for low income housing, not a private athletic club. Hey, surely there are better things to think about. I don't feel so good when think about our reality, and yes, we are real white. We have a Black population but they are not visible.