Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

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Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby socrat44 on August 2nd, 2020, 6:19 am 

Brief about Big Bang and Evolution
------
1 - Shakespeare needed about two years (1599 - 1601) to write ''Hamlet''
2 - Monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to type "Hamlet''
Conclusion:
1 - If Monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to write
"Hamlet'', then the Big-Bang theory is wrong.
2 - If Big-Bang theory is correct, then theory of Evolution
needs concept of ''Consciousness'' to be true theory.
(not only Darwin's selection theory)
=====
Attachments
Monkey - 3.jpg
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby Positor on August 2nd, 2020, 8:56 am 

socrat44 » August 2nd, 2020, 11:19 am wrote:1 - Shakespeare needed about two years (1599 - 1601) to write ''Hamlet''
2 - Monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to type "Hamlet''
Conclusion:
1 - If Monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to write
"Hamlet'', then the Big-Bang theory is wrong.
2 - If Big-Bang theory is correct, then theory of Evolution
needs concept of ''Consciousness'' to be true theory.
(not only Darwin's selection theory)

By your logic, the Big Bang theory cannot be correct, because (I quote two of your premises):

a. If a monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to write/type "Hamlet", then the Big Bang theory is wrong.
b. A monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to write/type "Hamlet".
Therefore:
c. The Big Bang theory is wrong.

What exactly do you mean by saying that the theory of Evolution needs the concept of "Consciousness"? Are you saying that consciousness needs to be present in the universe right from the Big Bang? Are you saying that consciousness cannot evolve from non-consciousness in a finite amount of time? And how do you define "consciousness"?
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby Forest_Dump on August 2nd, 2020, 9:55 am 

Definitely kind of weird. If covid 19 evolved from another virus then it too must be conscious? Bacteria evolve so the Big Bang is true or false? What if one of a million monkeys could type Hamlet within a million year span? Could the universe then be conscious or would that just mean there was a monkey conscious enough to know it was a monkey named Shakespeare?
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby socrat44 on August 2nd, 2020, 10:05 am 

Positor » August 2nd, 2020, 8:56 am wrote:
socrat44 » August 2nd, 2020, 11:19 am wrote:1 - Shakespeare needed about two years (1599 - 1601) to write ''Hamlet''
2 - Monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to type "Hamlet''
Conclusion:
1 - If Monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to write
"Hamlet'', then the Big-Bang theory is wrong.
2 - If Big-Bang theory is correct, then theory of Evolution
needs concept of ''Consciousness'' to be true theory.
(not only Darwin's selection theory)

By your logic, the Big Bang theory cannot be correct, because (I quote two of your premises):

a. If a monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to write/type "Hamlet", then the Big Bang theory is wrong.
b. A monkey needs unlimited (infinite) time to write/type "Hamlet".
Therefore:
c. The Big Bang theory is wrong.

What exactly do you mean by saying that the theory of Evolution needs the concept of "Consciousness"? Are you saying that consciousness needs to be present in the universe right from the Big Bang? Are you saying that consciousness cannot evolve from non-consciousness in a finite amount of time? And how do you define "consciousness"?


Matter, energy and information /consciousness
are necessary components to create evolution of Life.
----
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby Serpent on August 2nd, 2020, 10:38 am 

Why?
I mean, how did Hamlet come to be the standard by which the Big Bang is measured?
Who says a monkey (which species, btw? You have there a chimpanzee, not a monkey, and she's wearing a shirt which I'm pretty sure didn't grow on a tree.) needs infinity to write Hamlet? Give her a word processor instead of that old Underwood.
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby TheVat on August 2nd, 2020, 11:03 am 

OP doesn't meet basic SCF guidelines. Will be removed in 24 hours.
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby socrat44 on August 2nd, 2020, 11:28 am 

Serpent » August 2nd, 2020, 10:38 am wrote:Why?
I mean, how did Hamlet come to be the standard by which the Big Bang is measured?
Who says a monkey (which species, btw? You have there a chimpanzee, not a monkey, and she's wearing a shirt which I'm pretty sure didn't grow on a tree.) needs infinity to write Hamlet? Give her a word processor instead of that old Underwood.

One primate needs infinite time to write Hamlet,
but other primate was enough wise to complete Hamlet
in 13.8 billion years and it is possible to do if evolution
of consciousness take part in this process.
---------
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby Serpent on August 2nd, 2020, 12:33 pm 

socrat44 » August 2nd, 2020, 10:28 am wrote:One primate needs infinite time to write Hamlet,

Cite factual source, please - or at least logical basis for opinion.
but other primate was enough wise to complete Hamlet

How long would it take you? (Assuming, of course, that you are a primate.)
in 13.8 billion years and it is possible to do if evolution
of consciousness take part in this process.

And it has been done. 4 centuries ago. Try to move on.
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby socrat44 on August 2nd, 2020, 2:53 pm 

Serpent » August 2nd, 2020, 12:33 pm wrote:
socrat44 » August 2nd, 2020, 10:28 am wrote:One primate needs infinite time to write Hamlet,

Cite factual source, please - or at least logical basis for opinion.
but other primate was enough wise to complete Hamlet

How long would it take you? (Assuming, of course, that you are a primate.)
in 13.8 billion years and it is possible to do if evolution
of consciousness take part in this process.

And it has been done. 4 centuries ago. Try to move on.



The probability of creating Hamlet randomly by any means the
material Universe has at it's disposal in 13.8 billion years is 0.
---
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby Serpent on August 2nd, 2020, 4:01 pm 

socrat44 » August 2nd, 2020, 1:53 pm wrote:The probability of creating Hamlet randomly by any means the
material Universe has at it's disposal in 13.8 billion years is 0.
---

And yet it was done, after a mere 3.8 billion years of evolution, in a few months, by a single primate, with a quill, by candlelight, while also preforming, directing, arguing, going home for the odd conjugal week, carousing, schmoozing and living. I guess writing plays is a purposeful endeavour - not random at all.
Ah, there's the root of your misconception!
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby TheVat on August 2nd, 2020, 4:59 pm 

17 hours.
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby Forest_Dump on August 2nd, 2020, 7:44 pm 

Just because there is a scramble of ideas here and I don't have a car wreck to look at.....

Other than some odd religious ideas, I have never heard anyone suggest there was any necessary connection between the Big Bang and consciousness. Most scientists work on the assumption that no consciousness was involved.

Similarly evolutionary theory works on the assumption that no consciousness was involved and the mechanisms are becoming increasingly well known.

The million monkeys idea is a metaphor for very large numbers but not infinity. The idea is simply that something like Hamlet certainly could be generated from random given enough time. People like Dawkins and Dennett have worked with this idea (I think it was referred to as the library of Babel) and Pinker noted that a lot of the variants would be over looked because our minds would not necessarily see many of the typos. Again we are talking about very big numbers but not infinity.
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby socrat44 on August 3rd, 2020, 12:46 am 

Serpent » August 2nd, 2020, 4:01 pm wrote:
socrat44 » August 2nd, 2020, 1:53 pm wrote:The probability of creating Hamlet randomly by any means the
material Universe has at it's disposal in 13.8 billion years is 0.
---

And yet it was done, after a mere 3.8 billion years of evolution,
in a few months, by a single primate, with a quill, by candlelight, . . . !


. . . thanks to evolution of consciousness
----------------
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Re: Brief about Big Bang and Evolution

Postby Serpent on August 3rd, 2020, 10:40 am 

You're welcome.
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