why you think philosophy isnt taught in school?

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Postby dragslaye on October 5th, 2008, 1:41 am 

I would guest you are American, bcz i took philosophy on grade 9th back in my home country Colombia, it was also offer as an elective in grade 11 and 12 in Canada.
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Re: why you think philosophy isnt taught in school?

Postby AntonArtaud on January 6th, 2009, 12:57 am 

feuerfrei wrote:It is maybe the greatest task of school to create free minds, and philosophy only can offer them. In my opinion, cognitive psychology and philosophy should be foremost in the schooling.


While I agree with your position it is not practical before high school graduation.

There has been a dumbing down process in the school system for over 30 years. Today, too many high school graduates can't make change, identify countries on a map, know how to measure, or speak grammatically correct English. Some graduate are unable to form a complete thought.

A school district cannot afford to spend tax money on philosophy for the few, when too many can't discuss the function of a 1099.

It is unfortunate. None of this applies to anyone here. This may even be a radical position. But bookstores have far too many authors writing about the same subject--they all can't be wrong.
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Postby builderofhappines on January 6th, 2009, 1:04 am 

Philosophy may not be taught in most schools and certainly not under high schools becasuse everyone has a different look and philosophy on things so it is difficult to teach.
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Postby Forest_Dump on January 6th, 2009, 9:16 am 

I think a lot depends on exactly what is meant. It may be that there is debate on whether some topics in philosophy have value in some contexts but I think many topics in philosophy are being taught and more can be. I know people who send their kids to Catholic schools, for example, fully expecting, even demanding, that their kids be taught some philosophy (e.g., that of Thomas Aquinas) at a very young age. Others prefer some aspects of the philosophy of science. Some high school teachers I know (and former students) have pointed out that the best way to teach grammar is as a form of formal or symbolic logic. I think kids can and are being taught philosophy as soon as they start asking questions. The real question is what kind(s) of philosophy should be taught, how formal should this be and what expectations do we have on teachers to be able to accomplish this. And that, of course, becomes the broader question of the philosophy of education.
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Postby AntonArtaud on January 6th, 2009, 9:45 am 

builderofhappines wrote:Philosophy may not be taught in most schools and certainly not under high schools becasuse everyone has a different look and philosophy on things so it is difficult to teach.


This is a good point. In fact, a California High School is being sued for attempted to teach a class on creation from intelligent design. Of course, the is an immediate issue regarding teaching separation of church from state and have religion taught in school.

Also, philosophical issue don't need to drift far before God becomes a major factor, as found when discussing ethics, morals and capital punishment. The separation issue cannot be defeated.

Other objections are; philosophy is a "frill" class and a luxury; it is too advance for most students; it is unnecessary because critical thinking is already present and; it is available in college.
AntonArtaud
 


Postby xcthulhu on January 6th, 2009, 11:37 am 

I understand that classical philosophy is offered in schools in Germany.

When I was in high school, we had to read Emerson and Thoreau in English classes (I grew up in the next town over from Concord, and my teacher was from Concord, where these authors wrote). Actually, it turns that Bronson Alcott (Louisa May's father, also a trascendentalist) taught classes in a vaguely philosophical style; he would ask a question we would now consider existential, and just listen to responses from children (he was working with 5th graders). He even wrote down transcripts of these discussions; the kids said pretty cool things. Christopher Philips, founder of the Society for Philosophical Inquiry and author of several books on community based philosophical discussion reports similar experiences.

But while I have to admit that I am very partial to the idea of teaching philosophy, and community based philosophy in general, but I just wonder what sort of carriculum (if any) would be appropriate.
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Postby builderofhappines on January 12th, 2009, 10:21 pm 

This year I dropped from High cap to normal and I was shocked. They needed help with the most basic of things, and some did not know where Spain was. I think that even if we had a Philosophy elective most may not understand it, or enjoy it. Plus you would have to find someone who was mutual on everything and may not sway the opinion of the young generation. It is easier in Collage when people think for themselves more, but for the younger classes like 7th through 10th it is just a big and confusing. That is why philosophy is not taught in most schools.
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Postby AntonArtaud on January 12th, 2009, 10:35 pm 

builderofhappines wrote:This year I dropped from High cap to normal and I was shocked. They needed help with the most basic of things, and some did not know where Spain was. I think that even if we had a Philosophy elective most may not understand it, or enjoy it. Plus you would have to find someone who was mutual on everything and may not sway the opinion of the young generation. It is easier in Collage when people think for themselves more, but for the younger classes like 7th through 10th it is just a big and confusing. That is why philosophy is not taught in most schools.



I agree. The education system is still suffering from the " self-esteem" teacher mentality. There is were everyone should get A's. We're paying for it now.
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Postby Mellie on February 22nd, 2009, 5:12 pm 

AdamGWhitlock wrote:Actually, Philosophy IS taught in some Schools, here in England it certainly is. I would not have a job otherwise :)


It certainly is Philosophy 4 Children . I've just started it as an elective at uni! (im also from the uk)

Search for lipman philosophy on you tube for videos with young children doing philosopy sessions and in google search for sapere :)
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Re: why you think philosophy isnt taught in school?

Postby AntonArtaud on February 24th, 2009, 10:01 am 

GodIsDead wrote:
feuerfrei wrote:It is maybe the greatest task of school to create free minds, and philosophy only can offer them. In my opinion, cognitive psychology and philosophy should be foremost in the schooling.


Philosophy is taught in school, just disguised under different names.

Natural philosophy = science.
Moral philosophy = politics & law.

Other kinds of philosophy are just speculation.


That is because your country have maintained education standards while in the United States, far too many colleges and high schools have 'dumbed down" education.

Here in the U.S. your allowed to take a calculator into a math test???? Years ago, I would have received an "F" for doing the same thing along with suffering from other disciplinary actions.

And today, workers in the fast food industry cannot make change on their own. We are paying for all this lunacy.
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Re: why you think philosophy isnt taught in school?

Postby AntonArtaud on March 13th, 2009, 10:12 pm 

feuerfrei wrote:It is maybe the greatest task of school to create free minds, and philosophy only can offer them. In my opinion, cognitive psychology and philosophy should be foremost in the schooling.


I'm confident that you are bright and well educated. Unfortunately, the United States as a whole, continues to rank at the bottom 5th of any survey related to student achievement.

Also, we rank among the top 10 in spending for education K-12. So, you can imagine my attitude and many others regarding California school teachers losing their jobs. We feel for the people but maybe if there are less teachers, the government would return to higher standards and filter out the poor performers.

Instead of meeting the standards of the poorer countries regarding student achievement, politicians here would rather lower the standards, lower the achievement and charge us with more taxes.

Philosophy is taught in the U.S. but is rare. School boards are generally not in favor of offering an expensive class for the few top end students.

Schools here cater to the bottom denominator--this is very, very old news.
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Re: why you think philosophy isnt taught in school?

Postby ILikeCheese on August 8th, 2009, 8:22 pm 

Because the government does not want children to know how to think so they can carry out their evil plans to dominate the world ;) KIDDING! For whatever reasons schools do not think philosophy is an important subject to teach on a regular basis. Of course there are philosophy courses in high school - at least here in Ontario - but they are really dry in terms of getting people to think critically. Instead the curriculum tries to substitute this by making us read newspaper articles in classes and write stupid unrelated papers on them. I know this because I am currently in the Canadian school system. Despite our good ratings in statistics philosophy is just not seen as an important subject. Sadly the current school system is based on getting preps prepared to become high end lawyers and such. School barely engages students in critical thinking and how to think about current affairs and the meaning of life and all that good stuff. Students in school these days are taught to be a bunch of robots. They obey the rules - at least the ones that are too cowardly to be themselves - they pay attention to deadlines so they can get the pointless and time/life wasting assignments done to keep the teachers happy. I know I am being harsh here but I'm a student in the school system and I am getting extremely fed up with the way things are done. Students are so caught up in their cell phones and ipods it makes me depressed. I have very small hope for the future. Does the general population of teenagers participate in philosophy discussions? No I didn't think so. Even if there was regular philosophy courses taught to students on a regular basis do you think the kids of today would give a crap of what being taught. Not really. Believe me I wish things were different but this is reality.
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Re: why you think philosophy isnt taught in school?

Postby floW on August 9th, 2009, 11:13 pm 

Critical thinking may be the single most important aspect of academics - as critical thinking can (and should) be used universally in all subjects. The sad truth of the matter is that in N. America, and many other capitalistic/industrial nations, a persons education is aimed towards their ability to become industrially productive. We train industrial professionals - not professional human beings! Proficiency in critical thinking gives a person the necessary tools to become adept at anything thrown in their direction, including positive sociability, which seems to to be a lacking aspect of many of today's cultures.

Someone in an earlier post made a sort of 'conspiracy-esque' statement suggesting that the government doesn't want 'us' to think for ourselves. Then they brushed it off with a "just kidding". I think that this statement, if taken seriously, actually has some insightful value. While the government may not be aggressively trying to block our free-thinking ability, there certainly is a trend to be noticed. Collectively; government, corporations, businesses, and any organization with an economic interest, simply do not find a free thinking and particularly aware individual to be of any use to them. Governments want people that submit, trust and follow. Corporations, businesses or any other organization with an economic interest want people that will bring them profit, which usually means people that will fall for advertisement. Currently, the main infrastructures of the United States (aside from society itself) thrive off of ignorance, gullibility, and blind faith. Since this is the case, another critically thinking individual will only lower the advantage that governments and businesses have over society. In a nutshell, the king of the hill does not have a good enough reason to arm a society with notable intellect at this time. It's really up to society to make critical thinking a prioritized section of education. Unfortunately, society doesn't seem to be up to it. Many of the religious (and there are a lot of them!) find critical thinking to be threatening, or that critical thinking is not terribly important in light of their religion. Other people just fit so perfectly in to the American equation of productivity that they would have no clue what I'm writing about right now, much less what is happening around them.

That's my two cents, comments and questions welcome!
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Re: why you think philosophy isnt taught in school?

Postby hamjam on August 10th, 2009, 3:41 pm 

Unfortunately feuerfrei, the task of education is no longer just to create free minds. While you are right that this is the highest task of education, and that it may be argued that the reason for the creation of education was to create free minds (that is at least what people like Jefferson had in mind), the problem is that the people in control of education are in no way motivated by the creation of enlightenment and the liberal use of intelligence.

One of the most influential forces on school boards in America is the Christian Evangelical movement. It is by no means in their interest to instill in people a dedication to rational thought and intellectual honesty. As Kierkegaard, Luther and countless other proponents of Faith have proven in the past, Reason and the unrestrained intellect is an enemy to Faith and religious devotion. For the Fundamentalist Christians, the loss of Faith means the loss of humanity and morality -- the destruction of all of society.

We should not be surprised that our modern educational system does not teach philosophy in an effort to create free minds who seek out knowledge and Truth, for our educational system is influenced by Christians who demand mindless obedience as their highest dictum (which is essentially Kierkegaard and Luther's definition of Faith), as well as by corporate interests which are best served by a docile, un-impassioned, and believing populous.

Given the image of mankind that those in power of our education would like to build toward -- namely, an unthinking, hard working believer of whatever they are told to believe -- it is not surprising that philosophy is not taught, for the very fact that it would assist in the creation of free minds.

Seriosuly, can you imagine the rabidness of Ted Haggart and Michelle Bachman if students were being taught the philosophy of Nietzsche, the pre-Socratics, or even Hegel. Christians get upset about the Harry Potter novels, can you imagine if The Antichrist was being discussed.
hamjam
 


Re: why you think philosophy isnt taught in school?

Postby darey on August 15th, 2009, 6:31 am 

Philosophy isn't taught at school because philosophy can't be taught. Philosophy is a passion. 'Phil' - love of. 'Sophy' - wisdom (or learning). The love of learning can't be taught. It is something you want to do. The philosophy taught at education centres is usually just a person or some people's strongly held beliefs.

ALL humans are born with the love of learning, unfortunately this love of learning is replaced, mostly through the "education system", with beliefs. Beliefs are held within thoughts by the brain, which are formed through life experiences. Beliefs STOP learning. Fortunately though there is also an always open Mind that exists within each and every one of us.

Allowing children to remain open, by looking at life through the truly open Mind, instead of forming thoughts (beliefs) within children then human's natural ability to be natural philosophers, as each and every one of us is born as, then true and full wisdom of life will easily and quickly be discovered.

There is no problem that can't be solved. All of life's problems can be answered and solved instantly, once you know how to become truly open again.
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