Are Europeans Pedophiles?

[Doctorbeanjuice]

In Europe the legal age for sex is really low - like 14 in Germany, Portugal, Italy and Austria. In Spain its 13!!!1 This means a 40 year old man can legally have sex with a 14 year old as long as it is consensual (without coercion etc).

Does this mean the Europeans are pedophiles? Does it mean it's legal to be a pedophile in Europe?

[BioWizard]

In Europe the legal age for sex is really low - like 14 in Germany, Portugal, Italy and Austria. In Spain its 13!!!1 This means a 40 year old man can legally have sex with a 14 year old as long as it is consensual (without coercion etc).

Does this mean the Europeans are pedophiles? Does it mean it's legal to be a pedophile in Europe?

This question, in its current format, probably belongs in PCF.

[Lomax]

Hi DoctorBeanJuice,

Probably the best place to start is with settling definitions. (I'll assume you include hebephilia under the bracket of paedophilia). Firstly, some medical definitions don't count it as paedophilia unless children are the adult's primary sexual interest; they also don't count it as paedophilia unless there is at least a 5 year age gap. Also: is "child" to be defined in legal or biological terms? (I assume you are going for biological, or the discussion is redundant; but then I think complexity is introduced by the fact that people age physically and mentally at different speeds.)

Also, I think the discussion needs quantifiers: if paedophilia is legal, this doesn't necessarily mean there are any more paedopiles. Also, be careful not to single out Europe: in Mexico City the age of consent is 12, and if memory serves me, in Iran it's 14 for boys and 9 for girls.

[flannel jesus]

This thread looked eerily familiar:
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/thre ... 54580.html

So he joins 2 different sites and makes this his first post in each. Clearly he takes this issue very seriously.

[Doctorbeanjuice]

I certainly take this issue seriously. We have a responsibility to protect children around the world.

How would you feel if your 14 year old daughter had a 24 year old 'boyfriend'? Most likely you would want him executed for being an evil pedophile and traumatizing your daughter.

[flannel jesus]

Executed?

You're being hyperbolic in more way than one. Even in those countries, a post in the other forum you've made this thread on disputes your example of a 14 year old girl and a 24 year old man being able to have legal intercourse:

Statutory rape is still at the age of 16 or lower in all of these countries. Only sexual relationships where both are younger than 16 but older than 13 (in the most extreme case of Spain) is possible. Similar rules exist in those other European countries.

[Watson]

I find it hard to understand any culture that would consider a 9 year old girl mature enough to concent, and yet a boy must be older to give the same concent.

But I think the lower ages is to avoid the likelihood that active young people could be breaking the law because one is just under the legal age. So a lower age avoids this if most 14 year olds aren't active. But 9 is to young and I expect there are other reasons for this.

[Whut]

no

[BioWizard]

I find it hard to understand any culture that would consider a 9 year old girl mature enough to concent, and yet a boy must be older to give the same concent.

But I think the lower ages is to avoid the likelihood that active young people could be breaking the law because one is just under the legal age. So a lower age avoids this if most 14 year olds aren't active. But 9 is to young and I expect there are other reasons for this.

It might also have to do with the fact that girls usually hit puberty before boys.

[Watson]

Seems an odd consideration for girls to be allowed, when female considerations in general less than for males. And it is likely older males making this consideration and determining this low age of consent.

[Lomax]

It might also have to do with the fact that girls usually hit puberty before boys.

It's Sharia. Before the Khomeini revolution it was 16 for both genders.

[Watson]

It might also have to do with the fact that girls usually hit puberty before boys.

It's Sharia. Before the Khomeini revolution it was 16 for both genders.

What would the justification of this change be?

[newyear]

In Europe the legal age for sex is really low - like 14 in Germany, Portugal, Italy and Austria. In Spain its 13!!!1 This means a 40 year old man can legally have sex with a 14 year old as long as it is consensual (without coercion etc).

Does this mean the Europeans are pedophiles? Does it mean it's legal to be a pedophile in Europe?

Doctor, I live in Spain, and although the legal age of consented sexual intercourse may seem low, not many young girls will actually engage in this behaviour. Probably because the family unit is still very strong, and religious indoctrination. Even in marginal groups like gypsies have a strict 'gypsy' code of behaviour regarding sex and marriage. It is not uncommon for deaths to take place at gypsy weddings if the woman has been discovered to have had sex with another unknown to the husband or family.

The legal age for prostitution starts at eighteen, so a thirteen year old cannot prostitute even if desired. So your worries about young girls is rather unfounded, here at least.

Couldn't there be a problem in the US in which the legal age of consent is too high?

[Lomax]

What would the justification of this change be?

Well in the days and places of the Prophet Mohammed, the age of consent for both genders was 9. Mohammed betrothed himself to a six year old girl and she moved in with him when she was nine. Over the centuries (and particularly in the last century, due to international pressures) Iranian laws have become slightly more respectful toward children's rights; but to admit that 9 year old girls are not old enough to marry is to blaspheme the Prophet upon whose word the theocratic state is ruled. So the male age is raied a bit to help shut up human rights agencies, and the female age is kept low out of respect to the prophet.

In terms of how Sharia scholars would pretend to justify it, I have no idea.

[Watson]

Thanks for the history Lomax. If I'm not mistaken Iranian wowen have no say in such matters, if any matters, so it is still men making this decision to lower the age of consent for girls only. Regardless of the historical justification, I really wonder about the actual reason to have it so low, for girls age nine.

[newyear]

Thanks for the history Lomax. If I'm not mistaken Iranian wowen have no say in such matters, if any matters, so it is still men making this decision to lower the age of consent for girls only. Regardless of the historical justification, I really wonder about the actual reason to have it so low, for girls age nine.

Isn't there an Islamic member or guest out there that could shed a little light on this subject?

[mtbturtle]

First the original post question is nonsense...but since it has sparked some interest

How is Pedophilia defined?

There are common usages, definitions or images we often use sometimes and then there are more technical medical, psychological definitions as well as legal.

[Paralith]

Thanks for the history Lomax. If I'm not mistaken Iranian wowen have no say in such matters, if any matters, so it is still men making this decision to lower the age of consent for girls only. Regardless of the historical justification, I really wonder about the actual reason to have it so low, for girls age nine.

If I recall correctly, many cultures with arranged marriages have betrothals at early ages, and the girl may leave to live with her future husband's family well before any sexual activity is really expected to happen. There are several potential advantages to this, with the girl adjusting to and learning her roles in the new household, providing valuable additional labor for her future husband's family, etc. I'd imagine that such early ages of modern legal consent arise from these kinds of traditions.