difference between art and philosophy

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difference between art and philosophy

Postby rdai on March 1st, 2016, 12:33 pm 

Art and philosophy are different. Of course they are, you might say. But we might often hear people to connect art to philosophy. Personally I have heard someone said "art is philosophy", literally. More precisely, I should have said "someones" instead of "someone".

Why people said that? Well, they would tell you it is because what is good is beautiful and what is beautiful is good. But that is exactly where the problem is: what is good might not be literally beautiful and what is beautiful might not be literally good. Hollywood provides tons of examples: evil but beautiful men and women on the screen.

So art and philosophy are different.
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby moranity on March 1st, 2016, 1:16 pm 

the place where art and philosophy cross most distinctly is in existentialism, especially dadaism, where your entire life becomes your work of art.
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby rdai on March 1st, 2016, 2:26 pm 

well...even in ancient Greece, philosophers would claim that they lived out their philosophy....but that is philosophy.....not sure if we can call dadaism as existentialism....or I should say not sure if we can imagine whether Jean Paul Sartre would call dadaism as existentialism or not....It might be an interesting topic to check it out since there was overlap when Sartre and dadaism became famous :)...
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby moranity on March 1st, 2016, 7:01 pm 

the way i see it, and i could well be wrong, is that existentialism says that meaning is created by the individual, woven out of the chaos of existence. There is no purpose in the universe, purpose is purely a human thing, one inbuilt way of finding purpose is to carve out a self that satisfies the ascetic judgement , another way of doing this is to purely exhibit chaos, to become a direct conduit of reality, i think this latter is dadaism eh, and the former is something like cubism or maybe surrealism, where ascetics come before realism (analogous to ascetics coming before bourgeois morality)?
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby rdai on March 2nd, 2016, 10:29 am 

moranity » March 1st, 2016, 7:01 pm wrote:the way i see it, and i could well be wrong, is that existentialism says that meaning is created by the individual, woven out of the chaos of existence. There is no purpose in the universe, purpose is purely a human thing, one inbuilt way of finding purpose is to carve out a self that satisfies the ascetic judgement , another way of doing this is to purely exhibit chaos, to become a direct conduit of reality, i think this latter is dadaism eh, and the former is something like cubism or maybe surrealism, where ascetics come before realism (analogous to ascetics coming before bourgeois morality)?


I think your understanding of existentialism is quite precise......but that is exactly the point where art cannot be the same as philosophy because when people living as a chaos, they do bring chaos to this world.......I normally admire the wisdom of Nobel committee for their selection of laureates with ONE exception which is Jean Paul Sarter.......as you described he did live a Chaotic life, which really caused pain of some of his sex partner....well, you might disagree with me on this.....but my point is that art can be used to expose chaos, but people cannot purposely live chaotic life :)

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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby moranity on March 2nd, 2016, 10:57 am 

an existentialist would say your morality comes from you believing there is purpose to existence, if you adhere to no plan/purpose of existence, you have no morality handed down by the universe, your morality is for you to create, so good actions and bad actions (which just means actions that further your plans or don't) are defined by the individual, depending on what their plans are.
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby rdai on March 2nd, 2016, 11:24 am 

moranity » March 2nd, 2016, 10:57 am wrote:an existentialist would say your morality comes from you believing there is purpose to existence, if you adhere to no plan/purpose of existence, you have no morality handed down by the universe, your morality is for you to create, so good actions and bad actions (which just means actions that further your plans or don't) are defined by the individual, depending on what their plans are.



As I said that your understanding of existentialism is quite precise.....but that is exactly where the problem is......we don't appreciate a philosophy simply because it is crowned a "ism"....we need to value it based upon its impact in real life.....basically as I mentioned above what Sarter did hurt someone else' life....so if we are okay of this as a philosophical principle then this world would become a jungle very soon, in which who are trickier, stronger would take advantages of others in the name of the "ism'.....
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby Braininvat on March 2nd, 2016, 2:35 pm 

Art seems like a collection of expressive tools to show or say something which could be philosophical, or it could just be showing a pretty picture or telling an exciting story. Or just something to get people talking. Art is a very broad category of human activity. Philosophy is a more specific discipline concerned with fundamental questions of truth and value. So, while one can inform the other, they are fairly distinct. Fiction seems a good art form for exploring what Rdai calls philosophy's "impact in real life."
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby rdai on March 2nd, 2016, 7:18 pm 

Braininvat » March 2nd, 2016, 2:35 pm wrote:Art is a very broad category of human activity. Philosophy is a more specific discipline concerned with fundamental questions of truth and value.


I guess artists would be quite happy to agree with the above comment....but philosophers might not be :)

For philosophers, the subjects of philosophy span widely over everything we could see or think...and philosophers would think that art can never go as deep as philosophy could....:)
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby Eclogite on March 3rd, 2016, 2:52 pm 

rdai » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:18 pm wrote:For philosophers, the subjects of philosophy span widely over everything we could see or think...and philosophers would think that art can never go as deep as philosophy could....:)
While that my be true on an intellectual level it is doubtful it is true on an emotional level. And we are emotional creatures.
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby rdai on March 3rd, 2016, 8:16 pm 

Eclogite » March 3rd, 2016, 2:52 pm wrote:
rdai » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:18 pm wrote:For philosophers, the subjects of philosophy span widely over everything we could see or think...and philosophers would think that art can never go as deep as philosophy could....:)
While that my be true on an intellectual level it is doubtful it is true on an emotional level. And we are emotional creatures.


I think I have to agree on this...especially with movies, novels, music.....
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby Eclogite on March 6th, 2016, 8:54 am 

Surely you would need to include painting and at least some sculpture within this also.
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby rdai on March 6th, 2016, 1:16 pm 

Eclogite » March 6th, 2016, 8:54 am wrote:Surely you would need to include painting and at least some sculpture within this also.


I agree if you say so....because the issue of emotional is very personal.....Painting and sculpture in general does NOT stir me up emotionally very much :)
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art and philosophy

Postby GaryCGibson on April 9th, 2016, 8:04 pm 

Art was initially a constructive method of representing forms, yet of course a statue is a thing-in-itself and can be symbolic as well as representational. I think Sartre's Being and Nothingness and the Critique of Dialectical Reason were analytical representations of experience and subjective epistemology-Sartre regarded his work as continuing Descartes'. That doesn't mean that the analysis he produced, and that does incidentally share common features with sculpture and painting inasmuch as it represents real forms of existing things, processes etc., would have been the terminus of observations possible, nor that he would not have continued to describe and classify various recurrent patterns of social dialectic in the art of novels or in further philosophical works.

I wrote a poem after developing a philosophical idea in order to have a brief construction form to place it in. The idea was about lust as a universal human drive and its place in thermodynamics, cosmology and as original sin.

The Mountain of Lust
Beyond the spires and mist lay the great mountain
past the forest canopy in its silence of life dreams
where a path led upward
and visions of the emerald world
ran the course

Somewhere with beingness and corporeal actualization
a body of motion set to conquer
a foot ahead of another
always drawing onward
else the lust for summitting
be spent with sweat and mosquito bytes

Repeated a thousand million times
the words of the din corporation
demised those conditions asterisked
that were externalities to the monad at the top
where the largest was the smallest
pinpointed with a flagging poignancy of fulfillment

The mountain of lust set in majestic repose
drew the charged particles unto it
seeking to join their motivations onto its great parts
where yawning chasms barely able to remain awake
brought rope-swinging adventurers to life-risking
oscillations as metronymic pantomime
onward and upward 600 feet more

Waves of gravity lapped upon the world gently
sent from distant black holes
with millions of times the mass of the sun
consuming star clusters with burping gravitational changes
climbing the great mountain that lust overcome
without philosophic reflections
without the spirit of God.
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby mariel on July 22nd, 2016, 6:07 pm 

Art is philosophy, because both are subjective. The artist is free to create their own story according to their own values, but, there is some restriction of that freedom once the outermost frame is in place.
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Re: difference between art and philosophy

Postby vivian maxine on July 23rd, 2016, 7:12 am 

Reverse your sentence and see what you see. Philosophy is art. And so it is - an art of presentation. In reverse, the many forms of art present philosophies, commentaries, beliefs.
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