Who's supporting Clinton?

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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby SciameriKen on July 21st, 2016, 9:28 pm 

kidjan » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:46 pm wrote:
Paul Anthony » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:46 pm wrote:I will be voting for Gary Johnson, partly because he is a better candidate...


That's fine--just make sure you don't complain when a sexist sociopath with poor impulse control is literally the leader of the free world. Because it isn't just your vote--it's your words that matter here. Asking people to vote third party is literally inviting a Trump presidency.


The policy of fear once again. Vote for Clinton or else Trump is not the most inspiring slogan. I am voting for myself. Renaissance in America, its about time! That's my slogan
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on July 22nd, 2016, 9:04 am 

Is it fear politics to vote for the best interests of the nation rather than vote for onesself?

I doubt Trump will actually be a real president, if elected, but probably turn over all that to his veep while he makes stirring and vague speeches and shows up for state dinners. So, not really afraid, but pretty sure HRC will do a better job running things than VP Pence. Trump would be an "Avignon presidency." Sorry, but the Dick Cheney regime was enough of that for me.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Paul Anthony on July 22nd, 2016, 12:55 pm 

Braininvat » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:04 am wrote:Is it fear politics to vote for the best interests of the nation rather than vote for onesself?


OK, for the best interests of the nation I vote we get new candidates. :)

I doubt Trump will actually be a real president, if elected, but probably turn over all that to his veep while he makes stirring and vague speeches and shows up for state dinners. So, not really afraid, but pretty sure HRC will do a better job running things than VP Pence. Trump would be an "Avignon presidency." Sorry, but the Dick Cheney regime was enough of that for me.


Pence isn't Cheney, but I have suspected the same thing. Trump is new to politics. He grew up in the corporate world, where the CEO is NOT the top position. The Board of Directors, headed by the Chairman of the Board, selects a CEO to run the company. The most powerful position is the Chairman. Trump sees himself in that role. He will delegate the boring but important duties of the Executive office to Pence, a man with managerial and political experience.

I don't share your confidence in Hillary. Pence is not a bad choice. But I'll still vote for Gary Johnson.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby zetreque on July 22nd, 2016, 3:50 pm 

Braininvat » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:04 am wrote:vote for the best interests of the nation rather than vote for onesself?


I like how you worded that. I was trying to figure out how but couldn't until you said it. I might change the word "onesself" to "self interest" meaning the person who you seem most fit compared to the person who is the best option for the whole nation given the situation.

I'm still in the Bernie camp and so many conversations this year fail to even mention him but I really like what he has accomplished.


I'm sure a lot of capitalists and republicans will be horrified at this environmental regulation direction of the democratic party. I even find myself shuttering these days at higher taxes now (because they can be done in the wrong way like my experience with obamacare). Bernie got such a large support that they have to listen to him now if they want his voters to support Clinton.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby SciameriKen on July 22nd, 2016, 5:46 pm 

Braininvat » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:04 pm wrote:Is it fear politics to vote for the best interests of the nation rather than vote for onesself?

I doubt Trump will actually be a real president, if elected, but probably turn over all that to his veep while he makes stirring and vague speeches and shows up for state dinners. So, not really afraid, but pretty sure HRC will do a better job running things than VP Pence. Trump would be an "Avignon presidency." Sorry, but the Dick Cheney regime was enough of that for me.


Unfortunately the current political discourse has shut down discussion of policy specifics and their implication for future impacts.

Trump has indicated several social policies that are terrifying to say the least, yet likely the Constitution can defend us against.

Yet, Clinton has the potential to maintain corporate oligarchy and continue taking us into war after war, which in some ways can be equally terrifying.

I remain unconvinced voting either candidate is in the best interest of the country, and perhaps voting 3rd party, or myself if I get enough votes, would send a message that could lead to beneficial long term change, looking beyond 4 years.


As it
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby SciameriKen on July 23rd, 2016, 9:16 am 

To add to it:
Email leaks confirm what we already know about clinton-dnc-main stream media collusion
http://usuncut.com/politics/dnc-leaks-9-emails/

And Clinton chooses a pro-bank, Goldman sachs funded vice president.

Both candidates are racing to the bottom of scary
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on July 23rd, 2016, 9:38 am 

Ken, not sure what your leakage article "reveals," that isn't standard practice for the national committee in every election....the DNC favoring HRC was no secret, and Bernie was seen as the outsider, too far left to carry the party banner. So they promote HRC and slap down Bernie and get the MSM on their side. Welcome to the American political process for at least the past century and a half. As for Kaine being GS funded, you know that GS gives money to everybody, right? How many politicians, of either party, do you know of that turn down fees or donations?

Just saying, sometimes a "leak" is a humdrum peek into the sausage factory.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on July 23rd, 2016, 9:52 am 

In terms of political ideology, FiveThirtyEight gives Kaine an average score of -37 (-100 is the most liberal, and 100 is the most conservative). FiveThirtyEight characterizes him as a "mainstream Democrat" and notes that his ideology score is very similar to that of Vice President Joe Biden. Three conservative groups—the American Conservative Union, the Club for Growth, and Heritage Action—gave Kaine zero percent ratings in the last few years, while the liberal group Americans for Democratic Action gave Kaine a 90% rating in 2014.

Regarding banking, Kaine did support looser regulation on local banks and credit unions, because he felt they were not part of the TBTF problem that led to Dodd Frank. He supported Dodd Frank, btw, and continues to do so. He really seems like a middling Democrat to me.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby SciameriKen on July 24th, 2016, 11:31 pm 

Sorry for posting that other link - on my phone I accidentally grabbed the take from my pro-clinton friend on facebook which tried to minimize the emails -- here is a better link:
http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/07/22 ... -wikileak/

Obviously this is a big deal because Debbie W. Schultz resigned over it. This is not standard practice - this is straight up dishonesty and rigging of a primary. More is certainly coming on this.


Regarding what you wrote about Kaine -- I think a huge misconception regarding who Bernie supporters were was this characterization as far left democrats. Simply by getting a mainstream democrat we can once again have party unity as these Bernie democrats come back to the party. The problem is Bernie supporters are not democrats. They are Green party, they are libertarian, they are unaffiliated independents, if they are democrats, they are young and only registered as such because of Bernie. Bernie supporters owe nothing to the democrat party - they were just supporting the only honest guy in the race. If Trump gets elected the blame falls on the democratic party for not evolving, but rather forcing the ways of old down our throats.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on July 25th, 2016, 9:23 am 

Not sure I 100% agree with the Bernie supporter beakdown, but your last sentence pretty much nailed it, AFAICT.

As to what standard practice is in the DNC, you could be right that it's been better in the past, but it's hard to know given that we don't usually have the Russians thoughtfully leaking all their internal communications for us. They seem to be rooting for Trump in Moscow.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Paul Anthony on July 25th, 2016, 1:16 pm 

Braininvat » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:23 am wrote: They seem to be rooting for Trump in Moscow.


Can't say as I blame them. A Clinton presidency pretty much ensures the continuation of US interventionist policies around the world. Trump is more of an isolationist.

With the collapse of the USSR, Russia went from being the epicenter of one of the two world powers to being a third world country. Meanwhile, the US continued to expand its influence worldwide. Russians are a proud people.

Although China is also making an effort to grow its influence, China - despite being Russia's neighbor - presents less of a threat to Russia than the US does.

Clinton presents a threat to Russia. Trump may not. If you were Russian, which would you prefer?

They might have preferred Sanders, but that ship has sailed.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby SciameriKen on July 25th, 2016, 2:49 pm 

Paul Anthony » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:16 pm wrote:
Braininvat » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:23 am wrote: They seem to be rooting for Trump in Moscow.


Can't say as I blame them. A Clinton presidency pretty much ensures the continuation of US interventionist policies around the world. Trump is more of an isolationist.

With the collapse of the USSR, Russia went from being the epicenter of one of the two world powers to being a third world country. Meanwhile, the US continued to expand its influence worldwide. Russians are a proud people.

Although China is also making an effort to grow its influence, China - despite being Russia's neighbor - presents less of a threat to Russia than the US does.

Clinton presents a threat to Russia. Trump may not. If you were Russian, which would you prefer?

They might have preferred Sanders, but that ship has sailed.



It presents quite a dilemma - on one hand we have the Russians providing us with direct evidence of our corrupt politicians, while on the other hand we have a foreign government using electronic espionage against our government and influencing our political system.

I am not sure where Clinton stands on Russia -- if you believe the hour long Clinton documentary that just came out, she enabled Putin to gain 20% of the US uranium market, for what appears to be kickback to her Clinton foundation.

Aside from that I think cyber warfare is a huge national issue that also is not being addressed by main stream media and the political candidates.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Forest_Dump on July 25th, 2016, 4:40 pm 

I haven't posted anything on this but thought I would now.

I am supporting Clinton both because I think she is the most qualified and because there aren't really any viable alternatives as I will explain.

In many ways I liked Sanders and what he was saying. In fact, if I were American I might even have been a strong supporter of him up to a point so that he managed to get some of his platform across and influenced the Dem party line. However, I would not have wanted to see him run as the Dem candidate because he would represent far too much of a radical shift for the majority of Americans. That radical a change too quickly would simply rip the US apart with far too much violent (literally) over reaction to his policies and stances. Even running as an independent would threaten to split the middle/left and allow Trump to win.

Of course I would have absolutely no support for Trump. He lacks any relevant experience and IMHO is only a figurehead/entertainer who appears to just want to make an impression. Aside from being an entertainer, the only skill/experience he has shown is to use a corporate structure to fill his own pockets. Any reason to believe he wouldn't find ways to continue doing that in public office? I don't really think he could or would do any executive functions, although I strongly suspect he would be good at hiring reasonably competent people to do that for him (some of whom would be his family). The odd thing is that I even could support him on some policies (I am against free trade, do think there needs to be a lot of changes in immigration, etc.) but don't think he will accomplish as much as he claims because I think he is going to have a huge problem getting support from the Republicans. Too many differences even there and I won't be surprised if the Republicans have a huge split even if they managed to win.

I certainly have other musings on some of the Trumpisms, of course. The one I keep chuckling about has to do with a standard reply by the gun lobby who have long argued that there are too many guns and that guns have been free from control for too long to do anything about it now. Of course, the same can be said about illegal immigrants. There has been a problem for 500 years of illegal immigrants coming into the country and killing the native Americans, forcing their language, religion and politics on the inhabitants and now even wanting to keep some of the original Americans out (the Mexicans crossing the southern border are, of course, largely descendants of the Native Americans like Apachees, etc., who have been doing this for economic reasons for thousands of years). So I definitely see a lot of irony in THIS issue.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby SciameriKen on July 25th, 2016, 5:01 pm 

Forest_Dump » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:40 pm wrote:I haven't posted anything on this but thought I would now.

I am supporting Clinton both because I think she is the most qualified and because there aren't really any viable alternatives as I will explain.

In many ways I liked Sanders and what he was saying. In fact, if I were American I might even have been a strong supporter of him up to a point so that he managed to get some of his platform across and influenced the Dem party line. However, I would not have wanted to see him run as the Dem candidate because he would represent far too much of a radical shift for the majority of Americans. That radical a change too quickly would simply rip the US apart with far too much violent (literally) over reaction to his policies and stances. Even running as an independent would threaten to split the middle/left and allow Trump to win.

Of course I would have absolutely no support for Trump. He lacks any relevant experience and IMHO is only a figurehead/entertainer who appears to just want to make an impression. Aside from being an entertainer, the only skill/experience he has shown is to use a corporate structure to fill his own pockets. Any reason to believe he wouldn't find ways to continue doing that in public office? I don't really think he could or would do any executive functions, although I strongly suspect he would be good at hiring reasonably competent people to do that for him (some of whom would be his family). The odd thing is that I even could support him on some policies (I am against free trade, do think there needs to be a lot of changes in immigration, etc.) but don't think he will accomplish as much as he claims because I think he is going to have a huge problem getting support from the Republicans. Too many differences even there and I won't be surprised if the Republicans have a huge split even if they managed to win.

I certainly have other musings on some of the Trumpisms, of course. The one I keep chuckling about has to do with a standard reply by the gun lobby who have long argued that there are too many guns and that guns have been free from control for too long to do anything about it now. Of course, the same can be said about illegal immigrants. There has been a problem for 500 years of illegal immigrants coming into the country and killing the native Americans, forcing their language, religion and politics on the inhabitants and now even wanting to keep some of the original Americans out (the Mexicans crossing the southern border are, of course, largely descendants of the Native Americans like Apachees, etc., who have been doing this for economic reasons for thousands of years). So I definitely see a lot of irony in THIS issue.


Lol I enjoyed the last paragraph there -- Other than the shortcomings of the other candidates - why do you think Clinton is good for the country?
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Paul Anthony on July 25th, 2016, 5:03 pm 

Irony duly noted...and apt.

I've long since given up on getting a candidate I could support without reservation. If Trump is a small-time crook, Clinton is a much more professional one.

If either wins (as would seem to be likely) the nation will remain divided, if not more than ever. I am voting for Gary Johnson, not because he is the ideal candidate, but because his policies are more in line with the majority of Americans. Fiscally conservative but socially liberal. It is time people realize they don't have to discard half their principles by choosing a Democrat or a Republican.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on July 26th, 2016, 12:04 pm 

Paul Anthony » July 25th, 2016, 2:03 pm wrote:Irony duly noted...and apt.

I've long since given up on getting a candidate I could support without reservation. If Trump is a small-time crook, Clinton is a much more professional one.

If either wins (as would seem to be likely) the nation will remain divided, if not more than ever. I am voting for Gary Johnson, not because he is the ideal candidate, but because his policies are more in line with the majority of Americans....


I understand all the disgruntlement with both Clinton and Trump. But I don't really have a handle on what percent of Americans are really in line with a Libertarian like Johnson. Do people really want to be rid of interstate highways and federal funds for their children's schools? Do they really want to shrink the federal govt. way down or do they just like the idea of shrinking the parts that don't directly benefit them? Just saying this notion, which I hear a lot, that many people are secretly Libertarians but don't know it, needs more supporting evidence. I wonder if Libertarians need to do a better job getting their message out, letting people know what exactly their platform consists of?
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Paul Anthony on July 26th, 2016, 12:54 pm 

Braininvat » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:04 am wrote:

I understand all the disgruntlement with both Clinton and Trump. But I don't really have a handle on what percent of Americans are really in line with a Libertarian like Johnson. Do people really want to be rid of interstate highways and federal funds for their children's schools? Do they really want to shrink the federal govt. way down or do they just like the idea of shrinking the parts that don't directly benefit them? Just saying this notion, which I hear a lot, that many people are secretly Libertarians but don't know it, needs more supporting evidence. I wonder if Libertarians need to do a better job getting their message out, letting people know what exactly their platform consists of?


That's not easy. The media doesn't give any third party much coverage. Johnson is currently polling at 13%. He needs to get to 15% in order to compete in presidential debates.

I'd guess most people haven't even heard of Libertarians. Those who have may think they are immoral anarchists. Well, some are! Like any Party, Libertarians have their own fringe element. (Just look at the Democrat convention). But both the candidates for President and Vice-President are former Governors of states. They have track records that should dispel any fears that they will abolish government.

What could we expect from a Libertarian administration?

The military would be used for defense, not offense.
Marijuana would be legalized.
The LGBTQ community would enjoy equal treatment, as would all minorities - but so would whites.
Asset forfeiture would require a conviction first.
Bureaucratic regulations that make starting new businesses difficult would be reduced.
But...
There would NOT be an increase in the minimum wage.
Freedom of speech will be strengthened, no longer limited by PC (no, there would not be "safe spaces" on college campuses - everyone would be free to speak).

In other words, a lot of people would be happy, but some would not.

You can't please everyone. :)
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Forest_Dump on July 26th, 2016, 4:00 pm 

SciameriKen wrote:Lol I enjoyed the last paragraph there -- Other than the shortcomings of the other candidates - why do you think Clinton is good for the country?


Oddly, I haven't really needed to pay much attention to Hillary or her positions because she started off as an obvious likely or favorite candidate 8 years ago. Relative to the US I am more to the left (being Canadian, a liberal (including Liberal party more often than not) and conservative as well as somewhat of a (social) libertarian, etc. so obviously lean towards the US Democrats (although I often agree more with Republicans and even Paul Anthony on some issues (I am more protectionist because I believe more in economic competition, protection of domestic businesses, domestic resources and workers, etc.). So, I looked at the alternatives and never really saw any. Sanders obviously said a lot of things I really liked but IMHO he is so far to the left for the US that he would polarize and pull the country apart far too much. Change is necessary in the US but since it is such a big complex country, too much change too quickly would create too much strain and stress. And, although I don't think Trump is as scary as some of the candidates the Republicans seem to like to entertain (BTW I noted that David Duke seems to think the US is going his way) my biggest fear is that he could win and actually try to keep some of his promises. In Canada we had that problem with a populist conservative named Mike Harris 20 years ago and some parts he tried to fix still haven't recovered. And then, of course, while I still consider Trump more of a novelty candidate, I remember another populist conservative, inherited business tycoon, novelty candidate who also got elected - Rob Ford. So I also fear Trump really could win.

Paul Anthony wrote:I've long since given up on getting a candidate I could support without reservation. If Trump is a small-time crook, Clinton is a much more professional one.


I can't decide to what extent Clinton might be a crook and how much is run of the mill propaganda from the Republican extremists who never seem to be much bothered by any recognizable form of reality (and I fully acknowledge the Dems and many others from all sides of the spectrum can be every bit as bad) but I would seriously have to question whether you could call Trump a small time crook relative to anyone else who has held public office. You don't get to be any kind of billionaire by being either honest or small time. In fact that has also been among my concerns. Trump has never shown any sign of being interest in public service of any kind of philanthropy (beyond a PR minimum) so I have always assumed he was running for a combination of self aggrandizement and enriching himself down the line. I have no doubt that he has already been very busy cooking up some major back room deals that will profit him by orders of magnitude more than Bill and Hillary or even the Bushes could even dream about. That is, after all his forte. Trump didn't seem aware of or concerned about the near coup in Turkey but I'll bet he already has some people scouting out prime real estate for a Trump tower/casino in Russia.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Paul Anthony on July 26th, 2016, 5:59 pm 

Did anyone watch the speeches at the convention?

Al Franken talked about getting out the vote. Here's the advice he had for people with families:
"Now, many of you have jobs, many of you have families. Ignore them. Let me tell you something, kids love it when their parents are not home. They love it. And let me tell you something else, an eight-year-old kid knows how to use a microwave oven. And let me tell you something else, an eight-year-old kid can teach a four-year-old kid to use a microwave oven, it’s scientific fact. Don’t worry about your kids, they will be fine. You have work to do.”

Great advice from a Senator. Because Democrats care about the people. Well, the ones old enough to vote.:)
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on July 26th, 2016, 6:08 pm 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qCS6PbtbGmA

This interview was a useful summary of some Gary Johnson platform basics.

I liked a solid 90 percent of what Johnson said in that interview.  He seems more like a fiscally conservative liberal than a Libertarian in the old Ayn Rand sense that some tend to view Libertarians.  One serious problem he has is that rule-by-veto scenario he suggests....I don't know how well that worked in New Mexico, but it's hard to imagine that really winning hearts and minds on the national stage.  He has some of Bernie's problem, which is that he can float ideas that sound wonderful, but there's no path to building a coalition.  Still, if he gets enough votes, maybe more people will be thinking about how to downsize the budget without downsizing the compassion....who knows, maybe that could lead towards a smaller role as World Police and less meddling in the Middle East.  Keep the afterschool programs, lose some B1 bombers, maybe.

He comes across like Bernie, as a genuine and principled public servant. Possibly more genuine.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Paul Anthony on July 26th, 2016, 9:13 pm 

Who's supporting Clinton? Well, according to the leaked emails, Debbie Wasserman Schultz did.

Julian Assange, in an interview with Democracy Now, had this to say:

"I guess there’s a question: What does that mean for the U.S. Democratic Party? It is important for there to be examples of accountability. The resignation was an example of that. Now, of course, Hillary Clinton has tried to immediately produce a counter-example by putting out a statement, within hours, saying that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a great friend, and she’s incorporating her into her campaign, she’s going to be pushing for her re-election to the Congress.

So that’s a very interesting signaling by Hillary Clinton that if you act in a corrupt way that benefits Hillary Clinton, you will be taken care of. Why does she need to put that out? Certainly, it’s not a signal that helps with the public at all. It’s not a signal that helps with unity at the DNC, at the convention. It’s a signal to Hillary Clinton partisans to keep on going on, you’ll be taken care of. But it’s a very destructive signal for a future presidency, because it’s—effectively, it’s expanding the Overton window of corruption. It doesn’t really matter what you do, how you behave; as long as that is going to benefit Hillary Clinton, you’ll be protected."
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on July 26th, 2016, 9:34 pm 

Assange has a good point. HRC has been not real bright here, not distancing herself from someone who is basically violating the DNC charter and trying to game the primary process. Does HRC not see that this makes a lot of Bernie's earlier complaints about the primaries look much more legitimate? Why not jettison DWS, it's not like there aren't other people running around the DNC office who are savvy and capable. Now I need to go look up "Overton window.."

(I know I said earlier that the DNC emails reflected standard operations in the "sausage factory," but I'm starting to think this does reek of more corruptness than usual.)
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby SciameriKen on July 27th, 2016, 2:28 pm 

Braininvat » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:34 am wrote:Assange has a good point. HRC has been not real bright here, not distancing herself from someone who is basically violating the DNC charter and trying to game the primary process. Does HRC not see that this makes a lot of Bernie's earlier complaints about the primaries look much more legitimate? Why not jettison DWS, it's not like there aren't other people running around the DNC office who are savvy and capable. Now I need to go look up "Overton window.."

(I know I said earlier that the DNC emails reflected standard operations in the "sausage factory," but I'm starting to think this does reek of more corruptness than usual.)



Interestingly I started looking at some of the emails at wikileaks.org, and most were quite benign. Seemed like 70% of them were just subscription emails from news pubs, and another 15% reactions of the individuals to those emails -- but I was curious about DNC-Press Collusion so I searched under "Washington Post" -- what turned up was an email discussing a huge issue that they were about to go public with - the rest of the story is nicely outlined here (found when I did a google search with the colluding WaPo reporter) http://www.americanthinker.com/articles ... _post.html

All in all though it would appear your first impression was correct - but at the same time, bias was there, collusion was there - how much tolerance do we have for it?
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Paul Anthony on July 27th, 2016, 7:25 pm 

Trump and Clinton are the two most hated candidates in US history. It is time to send a message to the politicos that we are tired of having the Parties tell us who to vote for.

This may be the best opportunity in history to break the hold of the two-party system....by voting for Gary Johnson (he is the ex-Governor of New Mexico and the presidential candidate on the Libertarian ticket, for those who don't know).

A fiscal conservative and social liberal, he would appeal to many Americans, if only they had heard of him.

Here's what could happen:

Trump and Clinton are battling for that magic number of Electoral College votes to win the Presidency. If Johnson wins a handful of states, he could deprive BOTH disgusting candidates of a win.

Then, according to the Constitution, the Presidency is decided by the House of Representatives. They are not free to name just anyone. They must choose only from the candidates that won at least one state. So, they would have 3 candidates to choose from.

The House is controlled by the Republicans. They are highly unlikely to choose Hillary, but they hate Trump just as much. Johnson could be the next President of the United States.

Many people would be very unhappy. There would be so much gnashing of teeth and rending of clothing, you might think we were back in biblical times. ;)

But the reign of the Republicrats would finally be over.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on September 25th, 2016, 11:21 am 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/us ... sachs.html

Stuff like this makes me almost want to vote for the pothead.

Debate tomorrow should be entertaining, whatever else it is.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby Serpent on September 25th, 2016, 1:11 pm 

I have no stake (other than wanting the world to last a bit longer), but I've just read an interesting pov feom someone who gets his information at ground-level. http://www.lfpress.com/2016/09/21/terrorists-have-favourite-in-us-election-campaign

(PS Can I have a few minutes alone, behind the barn, with her fashion-consultant?)
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby mtbturtle on September 25th, 2016, 1:28 pm 

Braininvat » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:21 am wrote:http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/us/politics/bill-hillary-clinton-goldman-sachs.html

Stuff like this makes me almost want to vote for the pothead.

Debate tomorrow should be entertaining, whatever else it is.


It's not Johnson being a pothead that is a problem. It's he doesn't believe in our national government and he wants to run government (into the ground and out of existence at the federal level at least).
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby hyksos on September 30th, 2016, 9:07 am 

The DNC opened its first day with what? It opened with the entire stage full of black women singing Gospel music. I'm not even exaggerating. (I mean, multiculturalism is fine. But this was laying it on thick.)

Months ago, perhaps even in 2015, I was saying that the Hillary presidential election was going to be the apotheosis of the SJW movement. I was mostly ignored, or in some cases booed. Just this year, the word "genderfluid" first appeared on television, I believe I first saw it spoken on "All in with Chris Hayes". Just last night, the phrase "fat shaming" was used several times on CNN during Anderson Cooper's show. That made it the first time I had personally heard it used on TV. These words and phrases used to only exist in some foresaken corners of the internet -- places acting as watering holes for radical feminists, such as tumblr.

Some of the arguments that I had made up until now were based around (now defunct) DNC chair Debbie Wasserman-Shultz. I tried to explain to people that Wasserman-Shultz is a rabid SJW. She represents a person who wants a female in the White House, any female. Because this is how (in their minds) we will combat and defeat "the patriarchy". Literally, they want her in the White House because she is female, because they are sick of the political dominance by men seen through American history.

Now six weeks prior to voting day, Rodham-Clinton is latching onto the SJW party train and riding it full throttle. During her first debate with Trump, Hillary specifically mentioned Alicia Machado. This was clearly meant to drag up an event from decades past in which Trump interacted with a beauty pageant contestant in a way that would (today) paint him as a male chauvinist. But these interactions took place long before the SJW culture had solidified. In my opinion, mentioning Machado at all was a tactical mistake on Hillary's part.

The Clinton campaign has now doubled down their SJW pandering with the following TV ad, which appears to show young girls acting sad in front of a mirror (apparently depicting girls suffering from "low body image" , or whatever catchphrase they use now.) This ad has been played in my state.



This next ad has not been played in my state. It is easily the thickest , soupiest pandering to LGBT I have ever seen in any political election in my life.



The evidence is now in. 2016 is the Year of the SJW. It will reach its climax with the first woman president. This cultural epoch may explain, for example, why Bernie Sanders lost California during the primaries.
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby TheVat on September 30th, 2016, 9:46 am 

Not to be dense, but have not encountered the acronym SJW.

Also curious as to how women singing gospel is "laying it on thick."
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Re: Who's supporting Clinton?

Postby kudayta on September 30th, 2016, 9:58 am 

Braininvat » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:46 am wrote:Not to be dense, but have not encountered the acronym SJW.

Also curious as to how women singing gospel is "laying it on thick."


"Social Justice Warrior". It's a snarl phrase when used in this context. The implication throughout his post is that gay people, women, African Americans and transgendered folk should not have their voices heard on the national stage. People that disagree with this implication are summarily mocked.
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