Kim Jong Un Executes Top Officals After Trump Summit

[toucana]

Kim Yong Choi (L) Imprisoned - Kim Hyok Choi (R) Executed

North Korea has executed a number of senior officials involved in failed talks with the US in Vietnam, according to a report.

https://news.sky.com/story/kim-jong-un-executes-senior-officials-after-failed-trump-summit-11731972

The second summit between Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump ended in failure back in February, with the two leaders walking away from negotiations in Hanoi due to a dispute over sanctions.

South Korean newspaper the Chosun Ilbo said Kim Hyok Chol, the special North Korean envoy to the US, and other officials who carried out working-level talks during the summit were held responsible by Pyongyang for its collapse and were killed as part of a massive purge in March.

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2019/05/31/2019053101126.html

The Choson Ilbo said the killings were carried out to divert attention away from internal turmoil and discontent, with a recent UN report claiming the country's population is living in a "vicious cycle of deprivation, corruption and repression".

Another senior official, Kim Yong Chol - the counterpart to US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo ahead of the meeting - is also reported to have been subjected to forced labour and ideological education.

Kim Jong Un is also said to have inflicted punishment upon his interpreter at the summit, Shin Hye Yong, supposedly for undermining his authority and making a "critical interpretation mistake". She was sent to a prison camp according to the report.

[TheVat]

Trump is getting inspiration, I'm sure. Perhaps a forced labor camp for Pompeo, get some of that spare tire off.

[someguy1]

Toucana you should try to be less naive and gullible.

North Korea execution reports - why we should be cautious

But there is a reason we treat reports about North Korean officials being executed with extreme caution. The claims are incredibly difficult to verify and they are very often wrong.

Both the South Korean media and the government in Seoul have reported on purges in the past - only for the "executed" officials to turn up a few weeks later looking alive and well next to the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.

On this occasion, a single anonymous source has told a newspaper in Seoul that Kim Hyok-chol, the former North Korean envoy to the US and a key figure in talks ahead of the summit between Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump in Hanoi, was executed at an airport in Pyongyang.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48477248

[TheVat]

I saw a similar caveat lector in other news sources as well.

If they do want to try this approach with Bolton, however, can't say I'd mind terribly. Last thing we need right now is his type of bullying, war drum beating, loudmouth.

(posted as citizen, not as forum moderator -- and not seriously arguing for any nation to be engaging in political executions)

[someguy1]

I saw a similar caveat lector in other news sources as well.

If they do want to try this approach with Bolton, however, can't say I'd mind terribly. Last thing we need right now is his type of bullying, war drum beating, loudmouth.

(posted as citizen, not as forum moderator -- and not seriously arguing for any nation to be engaging in political executions)

I'd be happy to execute Bolton.

[toucana]

someguy1 wrote

Toucana you should try to be less naive and gullible.

Thanks for your concern someguy1. My original first degree was taken in Sinology, at a school of Oriental Studies. (I still possess a basic reading knowledge of both Chinese and Japanese, and use both of them on a day to day basis).

I have been studying Asian languages and news sources for over forty years, and I'm well aware that North Korean news feeds can be somewhat odd, unreliable and difficult to verify. But this particular report has been widely carried by a large number of other major new feeds, including a number of Asian sources such as SCMP (South China Morning Post) that I tend to trust.

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3012536/north-korea-executed-top-us-envoy-and-officials-after-failed

There is a significant amount of credible detail in these reports that is consistent with reports of previous regime purges carried out by Kim Jong-un in the last seven years or so.

These latest reports unfortunately probably have some basis in truth. If any significant inaccuracies come to light then I will update the post accordingly.

[someguy1]

someguy1 wrote

Toucana you should try to be less naive and gullible.

Thanks for your concern someguy1. My original first degree was taken in Sinology, at a school of Oriental Studies. (I still possess a basic reading knowledge of both Chinese and Japanese, and use both of them on a day to day basis).

I have been studying Asian languages and news sources for over forty years, and I'm well aware that North Korean news feeds can be somewhat odd, unreliable and difficult to verify. But this particular report has been widely carried by a large number of other major new feeds, including a number of Asian sources such as SCMP (South China Morning Post) that I tend to trust.

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3012536/north-korea-executed-top-us-envoy-and-officials-after-failed

There is a significant amount of credible detail in these reports that is consistent with reports of previous regime purges carried out by Kim Jong-un in the last seven years or so.

These latest reports unfortunately probably have some basis in truth. If any significant inaccuracies come to light then I will update the post accordingly.

Thank you toucana for that context. I place much higher value on "Here's a link to a story and some good reasons I believe it's true and not just fake news," as opposed to just posting the link. I have no way of knowing whether Kim actually executed anyone, so I found your response helpful.

[toucana]

Some of the less reliable stories about North Korean political developments tend to come from mainland Chinese sources. The PRC which functions on the whole as one of North Korea's major international supporters and apologists has had an equivocal relationship both with Kim Jong-un and the truth.

For example, in December 2013 when Kim Jong-un purged and executed his own uncle Chang Song-thaek, it was a PRC controlled Hong Kong newspaper called Wen Wei Po that circulated a highly lurid story that the disgraced politician and his aides had been stripped naked and fed to a pack of ravenous attack dogs inside a large cage.

http://www.sciencechatforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=25755&p=248377&hilit=Thaek#p248377

I covered the development of that story here, and it's subsequent rebuttal, after the BBC back-traced the sources and found it came from a single blogger using a forged account on the Tencent platform.

The story was quite untrue. Chang Song-thaek and his aides were most probably blown to pieces on an artillery range using high power anti-aircraft guns, just as defence minister Hyon Yong-choi was in 2014 - (US satellite surveillance inadvertently photographed the Kanggon firing range while the executions were in progress).

http://www.hrnkinsider.org/2015/04/unusual-activity-at-kanggon-military.html

As The Telegraph's Tim Stanley wrote at the time:

The thing about North Korea is that it's so mad, so gruesome that it's difficult not to believe whatever tall story you hear about it," he writes. "Kim Jong Un ate a baby? The army uses kittens for target practice? Kim Jong Il's reanimated corpse stalks the countryside scaring children? It all seems possible."

[toucana]

Kim Yong-chol who was one of the North Korean officials widely reported to have been purged and sent to a re-education camp as a punishment has reappeared in public according to a BBC report.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48493702

North Korean media showed him apparently at a musical performance with other officials sitting five seats to the right of Kim Jong-un

A list of attendees identified him as present, though in footage his face is partly obscured by his hands.

Kim Yong-chol is a spymaster within the North Korean regime who is probaby best known for the photo of him delivering a giant envelope with a personal message from Kim Jong-un to president Donald Trump in the Oval office a year ago.

Kim Yong-chol in the Oval Office in June 2018

Trump who had declared that he had ‘fallen in love with Kim Jong-un' later said the North Korean leader had sent him a ‘lovely letter’. The fact that the outsize giant envelope was a subtle joke meant to emphasise the small size of Trump’s hands had apparently escaped his attention.

Kim Yong-chol who has been described as the ‘right-hand man’ of Kim Jong-un has the reputation of being a ruthless and Machiavellian spymaster. He led the secretive Reconnaissance General Bureau (RGB) an elite wet-ops unit believed to be responsible for the assassination of the president’s own step brother Kim Jong-nam at Kuala Lumpur International airport in February 2017.

Kim Yong-chol was always the one figure most likely to emerge relatively unscathed from a purge, probably at the expense of throwing most of his colleagues under the bus, by accusing them of carrying out espionage with the Americans.

As the BBC report notes - Kim Yong-chol's reported attendance at Sunday's concert does not guarantee that he was never sent to a labour camp.

[someguy1]

Kim Yong-chol who was one of the North Korean officials widely reported to have been purged and sent to a re-education camp as a punishment has reappeared in public according to a BBC report.

The lead paragraph of an article about this that I just came across says:

Everybody who criticized the American press for blindly reporting unverified rumors that North Korea had executed and purged several senior NK officials over the botched Hanoi summit has now been vindicated.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06- ... rted-purge

I take some vindication myself. Your knowledge of affairs in that part of the world may be far superior to mine; but my natural skepticism serves me well regardless.

[TheVat]

Readers note:

The quoted article is an opinion column by the Tyler Durden pseudonym. Whatever the truth or falsity of claims therein, be aware that many journalists and economists, from Bloomberg News to Nobelist Paul Krugman, have critiqued Zero Hedge as a Russian-based propaganda website and not an accurate source of news. I am unable to determine the accuracy of these critiques, but advise careful factchecking of all opinions from "Durden."

[someguy1]

Readers note:

The quoted article is an opinion column by the Tyler Durden pseudonym. Whatever the truth or falsity of claims therein, be aware that many journalists and economists, from Bloomberg News to Nobelist Paul Krugman, have critiqued Zero Hedge as a Russian-based propaganda website and not an accurate source of news. I am unable to determine the accuracy of these critiques, but advise careful factchecking of all opinions from "Durden."

Toucana just posted the same fucking information. Fuck you.

[TheVat]

Readers note:

The quoted article is an opinion column by the Tyler Durden pseudonym. Whatever the truth or falsity of claims therein, be aware that many journalists and economists, from Bloomberg News to Nobelist Paul Krugman, have critiqued Zero Hedge as a Russian-based propaganda website and not an accurate source of news. I am unable to determine the accuracy of these critiques, but advise careful factchecking of all opinions from "Durden."

Toucana just posted the same fucking information. Fuck you.

I am both confused and surprised. Confused, because I saw no prior post on Zero Hedge. Surprised, since you have usually been a fine contributor here and observer of current affairs, as well as math head, and have not evidenced a philosophic objection to moderators when they call for factchecking. If you read my actual post, I was not saying that ZH could not have been correct on particulars of the latest NK affair, just asking readers to be aware of some controversy over ZH's opinion pieces (which that was from). As I said, I can't determine (time is limited) if the Bloomberg or Krugman critiques are accurate, so I was simply saying "caveat lector." I did not, in any way, block your posting or deny you your right to start a thread in support of ZH, if you feel that's merited.


Honestly, what is the problem that you would move to such a strong personal attack? It would be my duty to ban, but I have no desire to stand on protocol with someone who usually adds so much value to SPCF.

[toucana]

Anyone with a "natural sense of scepticism" probably wouldn't be relying too much on zerohedge.com as a source of unbiased information.

The update I posted was in fact rather more nuanced than you suggest someguy1. For example the fact that Kim Chong-Yol (if it was he) was seated five chairs to the left of Kim Jong-un at that concert, rather than in a position of honour on his master's right-hand side would suggest to any experienced Asia-hand that he has suffered a significant demotion in the wake of the Vietnam summit debacle.

It's also worth noting that nothing has been seen or heard of the numerous other functionaries who abruptly vanished in March during the reported latest purge. I would venture to suggest that nothing ever will be either.

[doogles]

As an outsider to this discussion someguy1, I'm moved to say that I think your response was inappropriate to this forum. My interpretation was that TheVat was commenting on the link itself and not attacking you personally. As an administrator, he was advising all of us to be a little skeptical about the reporting of some journalists.

I believe he does an excellent job as administrator and certainly deserves more respect than you have shown here. He certainly merits our support, and he has mine.

Like TheVat, I believe your contributions to this forum have been of good quality in the past, and would like think that this was just a temporary lapse.

[bangstrom]

What has happened to the North Korean diplomats remains a mystery.

(CNN) ”The North Korean diplomat who South Korea’s largest newspaper said had been executed by firing squad is alive and in state custody, according to several sources familiar with the situation.”

https://fortunascorner.com/2019/06/04/e ... urces-say/