176 Dead in Tehran UIA Plane Crash

Reopened October 2019 - includes archived threads from pre-2019

176 Dead in Tehran UIA Plane Crash

Postby toucana on January 8th, 2020, 11:23 am 

A total of 176 passengers including 63 Canadian nationals are reported dead in a crash involving a Ukraine International Airways Boeing 737-800 NG airliner that had just taken off from Tehran International Airport on Wednesday, shortly after Iranian forces had lauched ballistic missiles at two US army bases in Iraq.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/iran-plane-crash-live-intl-hnk/index.html

According to the offical IRNA new agency in Iran, the crash was caused by engine failure shortly after take-off. But a video posted on Twitter shows the plane descending rapidly in flames after telemetry tracking failed abruptly at 8000 feet according to FD24 records. No emergency was declared by the crew before the plane crashed.

https://twitter.com/alihashem_tv/status/1214756252749877250

Photographs of the crash site taken at first light by a number of news agencies appear to show sections of wreckage marked with incised shrapnel damage similar to that caused by an anti-aircaft missile.

Image

The arabic language Al-Hadath newpaper based in Jordan is reporting that the Ukrainian airliner was in fact brought down accidentally by an Iranian surface-to-air missile that was fired in error.

https://twitter.com/IntelDoge/status/1214758596094971905

The head of Iran’s Civil Aviation Authority, Ali Abedzadeh, has said that Iran will not hand over the flight data recorders for analysis to either the US government or to Boeing.
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Re: 176 Dead in Tehran UIA Plane Crash

Postby Serpent on January 8th, 2020, 3:39 pm 

How horribly ironic - the one time human error might exonerate Boeing, they can't get the evidence!
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Re: 176 Dead in Tehran UIA Plane Crash

Postby toucana on January 11th, 2020, 12:16 am 

AP and Sky News are both reporting within the last few minutes that the Iranian military authoritiies have now admitted that they shot shown the Ukrainian airliner in error.

https://news.sky.com/story/iran-admits-it-unintentionally-shot-down-ukrainian-passenger-jet-11905884
The Iranian military has admitted that it "unintentionally" shot down the Ukrainian passenger jet on Wednesday, due to human error, according to state media.

All 176 people on board were killed when the jet crashed on Wednesday, hours after Iran launched ballistic missiles at two US bases in Iraq to avenge the killing of its top general in an American airstrike.

Officials said that the jet had flown close to a sensitive military strike.

The military statement, which was read out on state TV, added that the people responsible would be held accountable.

Iran had previously denied any involvement in the jet's crash, and had even said that accusations it had accidentally shot down the plane were "psychological warfare against Iran".
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Re: 176 Dead in Tehran UIA Plane Crash

Postby TheVat on January 11th, 2020, 1:44 pm 

What do you think the odds are that this tragedy would have happened if Trump admin hadn't just assassinated that Iranian military leader, thus rendering everyone in defense forces tense and trigger-happy? Has any good ever come of extrajudicial killings against leaders of nations we're not at war with?

The sad math of the Middle East is that when we kill someone defined as an enemy it usually creates thousands of new enemies. We don't belong in that part of the world, we no longer need their oil, and Israel needs to start working out how to get along with its neighbors without us standing behind them. And giving them billions in bully funds. USA is a destabilizing force there, and always will be. Clinton, Bush, Obama, none of them ever had the political courage to craft a sane policy of noninterference.
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Re: 176 Dead in Tehran UIA Plane Crash

Postby Serpent on January 11th, 2020, 2:15 pm 

They would first have to craft a sane - relatively dry - strategy of phased disengagement. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that no administration has been sufficiently motivated to try.
The embedded irony here is that every president wants to appeal to doves and hawks at the same time: look tough while pursuing peace, which usually means swinging back and forth between appeasement and bullying, when neither tactic is effective.
They would have to bring together academics, diplomats and generals, take expert advice - and then also listen to the people on the ground who have to carry out the actual moves.
The requisite confluence of good judgment and decisive action is unknown in constitutional government.
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Re: 176 Dead in Tehran UIA Plane Crash

Postby toucana on January 12th, 2020, 5:55 am 

Part of America’s enduring problem with the middle east is the pernicious influence of what is known as ‘Christian Zionism’ amongst right-wing political advisors within the US political establishment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/30/us/politics/pompeo-christian-policy.html

A certain number of prominent neo-con advisers within the institutions responsible for American foreign policy in the middle-east are white evangelical fundamentalist Christians who believe that they are living in elder times in which the apocalyptic events described in the Book of Revelation are being re-enacted.

They fervently believe that the locale and geo-political objectives they are pursuing will coincide with the arrival of the Antichrist and his defeat in the final battle of Armageddon on the plains of Megiddo and the valley of Jehoshaphat, followed by the second coming of the messiah, and a ‘rapture’ of the faithful up into heaven by the Lord.

President George W. Bush was susceptible to this form of bible-humping, and it was one of the factors that helped direct his administration’s disastrous march into the second Persian Gulf war from 2001 onwards.

Mike Pompeo who is the current Secretary of State is yet another evangelical Christian true-believer in this latter-day Crusader cult who is busy playing Onward Christian Soldiers and belting out Praise The Lord and Pass The Ammunition as he does so.

The NYT times article above from 30 March 2019 spells out quite clearly what this belief system involves —>
JERUSALEM — When Secretary of State Mike Pompeo sat down for an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network in a hotel in Jerusalem earlier this month, he made a remark that was perhaps the most revelatory of any in his nearly one year in office.

An evangelical Christian, Mr. Pompeo had just returned from tours of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, built on the ground where Jesus is said to have been crucified and buried, and of tunnels beneath the Western Wall, by the holiest site in Judaism. The interviewer posed a question around a biblical tale about a queen who saved Jews from slaughter by a Persian official: Did Mr. Pompeo think President Trump had been “raised for such a time as this, just like Queen Esther, to help save the Jewish people from the Iranian menace?”

“As a Christian, I certainly believe that’s possible,” Mr. Pompeo said. “It was remarkable — so we were down in the tunnels where we could see 3,000 years ago, and 2,000 years ago, if I have the history just right — to see the remarkable history of the faith in this place, and the work that our administration’s done, to make sure that this democracy in the Middle East, that this Jewish state, remains. I am confident that the Lord is at work here.”.


President Ronald Reagan famously used to allow the timing of key policy decisions taken by his administration to be influenced by his wife Nancy’s firm belief in astrology. Basically if her horoscope didn’t think it was a lucky day, then it didn’t happen.

In Trump’s administration (as in that G.W. Bush) key policy decisions are being made on the basis of what used to be known as Stichomancy (from the the Greek root στίχος - “row, line, verse”) aka Bibliomancy, a form of divination in which the bible is opened to a random page and a finger placed on a verse with your eyes closed.
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Re: 176 Dead in Tehran UIA Plane Crash

Postby Serpent on January 12th, 2020, 11:55 am 

... and there is no shortage of smiting in that book....
... nor the other one, for that matter.
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